Help! iPad 3 on LTE in UK. Question

Thank you Keith and Andy for prompt and helpful responses.

One of the guys at Apple told me yesterday that they would not replace it unless it had a fault, and only then would give an identical machine, new or refurbished.

I purchased a laptop in March of this year at the same retailers. Issue with keyboard. Took back within two weeks and told they would not take it back as, "we don't know what's on it." I had no idea what he meant. I was embarrassed. Since learned it refers to personal data. Only after numerous phone calls and letters to head offices, did I get them to take it in for repair, five months later, September this year. Two weeks later got call to say was ready for collection. I go in and I am told, "the warranty does not cover spill ages." I did not spill anything on it. They sent it back with the screen cracked top to bottom too and I also discovered that it was covered with water when delivered to this retailer's repair centre. They were going to leave it at that. More calls and letters and horse sedation. If I'd handed in to store with a cracked screen the guy would have noted it. I could hardly believe these people. Eventually they accepted responsibility and have given a new laptop which I have given to a nephew. I got the iPad in meantime and noticed something. I was wary of being caught again. They have been really unhelpful and this has destroyed my confidence with them and nearly now too with Apple. I think Apple give much better customer service from what I am hearing.

I'd like to have this machine taken back by retailer's. Refunded on a mis selling technicality it possible. Then go to Apple, tell them what I need and go from there. I have a sister considering three iPads for her kids for Christmas. She is waiting to see the outcome of my experience.

Can any of you advise if I can take this back as being mis sold by the retailer or which Apple store/s might advise me ?

The ads imply 4G compatibility and it says 4G in the receipt. Sales people also said was compatible though I realise now they don't know what they are talking about. The manageress could not even switch the machine on. Had to show her.

If I can't get satisfaction I will sell and be done with retailers and Apple. Can I use credit card company to claim back using this information ?

My issue is really with the way it's been sold and utterly diabolical 'customer service' which destroys faith in retailer and the company whose products they re sell.

Any and all help appreciated.

Thank you again.

If you bought it with a credit card then you are in a stronger position.

1 I would speak to them and get their advise.

2 If you have written to the ASA They will have already advised you to contact the Citizens advice consumer unit

They in turn will pass on your information to Trading standards who will if they receive enough complaints will take action.

It may sound like a lot of hassle but all can be done via email and hopefully it will be worth it in the end.

And I should have said put your complaint in writing to the retailer you bought it from in the first place.

Gullytale in regards to the damage and poor service to your faulty Computer this is a matter to take to the small claims court (Claims under £5,000.00) - You will win .

The IPad is a differing issue and legal route. The LTE compatibility issue and Apple marketing has long been corrected in the UK and as has the supporting marketing materials issued to official resellers.

Your main problem is UK sales regulations for you.

A retailer may repair or replace or offer a refund on FAULTY goods , however they are NOT obligated to exchange goods that function or even have marginal aesethic faults - For instance this includes an minor clip on an edge of an anodised surface or a single frozen pixel.

That said most resellers including Apple and John Lewis would replace without a question and within a reasonable time period (typically 14-21 days )

Now you have been mislead by marketing claims by a reseller and you should pursue them !

You can not link both actions however, even if its the same company.

What I would say is Never buy Anything from that reseller ever again (I think I could guess the company has a purple logo !) what ever the price as they clearly don't care about the customer and aftersales (Unless selling over priced and useless insurance warrantees -that gives the seller a nice commission!)

Agree with Andy you Must make a formal written complaint to the retailer because you have to give them the opportunity to offer a satisfactory solution BEFORE pressing on with legal processes.

Miss out the CAB step they are useless in my experience !

The tone i have taken here is one of caution for good reason, I have to take suppliers and customers through the legal process in my business every working day.

From my own experience i have only ever had good customer service from Apple in over 12 years.

I had an ibook with two logic board failures both -replaced one in warranty and one out of warranty but after they found an persistant issue with it - Both free

I had an 12" Powerbook with a latch fall out two years after purchase -Apple sent a box via courier and fitted a new latch for free.

More recently one of my Mac Pro models (a 2006 1.1) a critical business server developed a problem with its cooling fans - they wouldn't go off and sounded like a jet engine !

Hauled it to Brent Cross (Its bl**dy heavy !) and they ran some tests suspected sensor failure .

They had the machine for a week thoroughly cleaned inside , rewired the sensor . they quoted £120.00 with a new sensor , however the cleaning and cable did the job and again they didn't charge me anything !

That's the level of aftersales i expect.

Thanks again Andy and Keith. I will write to those people Andy if helps get them to look into people being dealt with in this way.

They have offered me a replacement laptop Keith. They have the gall to ask fifty pounds to burn on Windows 8 and show how to work it. Can they charge for putting Windows 8 on a new machine ? I thought it would have come with that. I have not gone to collect the new machine yet.

Regarding the separate issue, the iPad. Let's just say the retailer is now called 'two become one' and use purple and sell useless insurance. So their online advertising for this product is OK ? Apple removed the 4G reference but this company mentions it on their sites and it's clearly on the receipt too. "IPad3 64GB Wi4G". The site ad says that at this time 4G is only available in US and Canda on AT&T and Verizon. This implies it may be available in UK at future date. But if I am understanding correctly this machine will never be compatibile with UK networks at any time. If Apple have given resellers relevant supporting material for their advertising does that mean that 'two in one' are not mis leading buyers, even using the '4G' reference and implication ?

I suppose what I am asking is if it's worthwhile to go to these people with this 4G claim and tell them I have been mislead, paid for a device that I cannot use in UK now, or in future on the networks here ? Or can they come back and say their advertising/selling does not mislead ? The link you gave earlier to the devices which support 4G. This device I have here is not listed in the 4G option.

I think under provision and sale of goods and services there is something about information, or lack of same affecting the choice to purchase. Could I go to them saying I would not have purchased this device had I known, had the relevant information telling me it will never be compatible with UK networks ?

Sorry for all the questions. Just want to be sure of my facts fore I go again. Not into standing arguing with clueless, incompetent sales staff.

Thanks

Some of wording

"The Apple iPad 4G with WiFi and 64 GB of memory will revolutionise the way that you see your world."

Internet connection WiFi (802.11a/b/g/n)

4G, 3G

At this time 4G LTE is supported only on AT&T and Verizon networks in the U.S. and on Bell, Rogers, and Telus networks in Canada. See your carrier for details.

Seems ro imply here that 4G LTE might be available elsewhere some time.

This is the present advertising.

Quote

They have the gall to ask fifty pounds to burn on Windows 8 and show how to work it. Can they charge for putting Windows 8 on a new machine ?

In theory yes they can charge for the added “benefit” however the small claims court would weigh this against the inconvenience of the time not having a working machine.

I would say to them stuff the upgrade just give me a replacement machine.

Given that W8 is now a standard install they should just cave in on this point .

As to the iPad you may have a case for deception against the retailer (we know who you are) given your receipt and conversations with their agent (Sales person).

After the rapid rulings in the Spring and Apple's own advertising changes and trade releases including advertising and technical literature, the claims of LTE support for the New iPad (in the UK or other domains) now or at a future time should not have been made by the reseller.

Again the literature and notations on the boxes only refer to Verizon/Sprint and/or ATT (Differing models) in the US.

Support for other technologies are also stated and include HSDPA+ which is sort of 4G spectrum and deployed by the 3 network (but that's a technicality really)

Quote

I think under provision and sale of goods and services there is something about information, or lack of same affecting the choice to purchase. Could I go to them saying I would not have purchased this device had I known, had the relevant information telling me it will never be compatible with UK networks ?

Yes you have grounds.

Not sure if any of these links will help with any of the techie stuff. Picking out bits for my own use.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5205#

http://www.apple.com/uk/ipad/specs/

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/ipad/ipad-faq/differences-between-ipad-3rd -gen-early-2012-models.html

Key to note the date of this knowledge base article - 11th May 2012 in the USA.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5205#

New iPad Release date in the UK was 17th March 2012. These two months have importance in any claim for purchases made during the intervening time frame.

http://www.apple.com/uk/ipad/specs/

Confirms LTE bands and the two differing models A1460 - CDMA for (Verizon/Sprint) and

A1459 (GSM) -This is the UK version.

The LTE function is referenced in notation with two **s in small print and that points to another page (the one I provided previously) - Agree due to the convoluted path its not so easy the extrapolate the compatibility or lack of straight away.I think there was prior link to the support knowledge base article HT5205 above.

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/ipad/ipad-faq/differences-between-ipad-3rd -gen-early-2012-models.html

No real help its a US based article about US hardware.

Keith I have to say you are loosing me in all of this technical jargon.

Looking at that last link you provided am I right in thinking that the model number on the back denotes which country it is for IE: A1430 is the 4G LTE .

If so what would be the model number for the UK.

Or have I totally misread the specs??

iPad model numbers

Not country specifically but more what radio frequencies are supported.

The UK 3G and Wifi models are

A1337 - Original iPad - 3G on GSM (Can not upgrade to iOS 6 and has no cameras)

A1396 - iPad 2 - 3G on GSM no LTE support

A1430- New iPad -3G on GSM LTE support for ATT in the US only and retina display - This is the model with the problem !

A1459 - iPad with retina display (November 2012) - Current model 3G GSM AND support for 1800mhz LTE “4G” on the new EE network in the UK.

Won't work on future Vodafone/O2 or Hutchinson LTE “4G” frequencies ever.

The USA has additional models to support their different CDMA mobile system operators (Sprint and Verizon)

I see that EE makes use of 700c mHz. IPad 3G A1430 uses 700 c mHz

It does say that there is no guaranteed support on all LTE networks using same bands, I.e. 700 c mHz.

Anything on this Keith ?

Thanks again. Wanna hand in all I can.

i think 700mhz using US hardware was used as a trial around Slough only and not for deployment.

This frequency has NOT been allocated for European/UK telecomms usage.

The available frequencies for the UK are 1800Mhz- EE (re used GPRS) Current and live and leased spectrum by 3 network shortly to go live.

800mHZ Old analogue TV frequencies to be auctioned off - Likely to go to O2 and/or Vodafone for use in large cites - Has good penetration characteristics ideal for built up areas.Only became available Nationally in the last few days as the last TV transmitter was turned off in Northern Ireland.

2600GHz the new band to be auctioned - Likely to go to Hutchinson and for rural use by Vodafone/O2) -this will have large radius coverage from limited masts - Ideal for rural areas. However it may not be as robust as other frequencies (Queue its slower) in use. Still will out perform current GSM 3G.

As a said LTE is in its infancy with true role out still 12 months away and with time for Apple and others to update their hardware accordingly.

So the motto to this saga is don't buy another iPad for at least 12 months.

If you want full use and chose of LTE equipment (Apple or other manufactures ) network supplier and tariffs - Correct !