What is the MTBF of an eMac hard drive?

It would depend on the specific brand and model of the drive. Without knowing that it's impossible to say. Apple used a number of different drives from various vendors over the years.

But MTBF means nothing; any device can fail early. "Mean time" means just that - it's the median between the earliest failures and the latest ones. It's not a guarantee of any sort. A drive failing in two years it unfortunate but by no means unusual. I don't know about UK courts, but in the US, it would be very difficult to obtain legal judgement for an out-of-warranty failure unless you could prove the the failure was chronic and inherent.

So I think you have very little legal standing. But if you want to spend your time and money suing (I can't image it will cost less than just replacing the drive), it's yours to waste, I suppose.

Up to you. But according to the information I've read on the Sale Of Goods Act, you will need to prove that the defect (latent or inherent) was present when you bought the system, something that's probably going to be very difficult. And given that you can buy a new 40GB hard drive (you don't say how large your original one was) for less than the cost of filing, it doesn't seem to be a cost-effective use of time and money for anyone; you, the retailer, or the UK courts.

If you haven't seen this web site about the SOG, you might want to take a read through it before you file.

You have got to be kidding. You are suing a retailer over an old Jaguar-based eMac whose 40GB HD expired after 2 years of use? Sorry your HD died, but your eMac was long out of warranty and although as you say it is up to the judge, I cannot imagine you winning your case. Life is too short to get hung up over things like this ... just buy a new HD and move on.

There are two types of hard drive:

1 those which have failed

2 those which haven't failed... yet.

All that MBTF stats will tell you is that, after testing, 50% of Brand X Type 1 Drives will fail before 10,000 hours of use and 50% will fail after 10,000 hours. That 10,000 hours (or 20,000, or 40,000, or 50,000, or even 100,000) includes today. It includes the next five minutes. I'm typing this on a relatively new iMac G5; if the drive died tonight, I'd be surprised... .but because I know from past experience that any drive can die at any time without any warning, I've got my stuff backed up. (SuperDuper! runs every night at 00:30 and copies my stuff over to another drive. It's possible that both might die at the same time, but very, very, VERY improbable. If either drive dies, I'll have a replacement for it as soon as possible and certainly within 48 hours, so there's only a very small window for both drives to die and take all my data. And the important stuff is backed up on DVDs; that way not only would both drives have to die, but the DVDs would have to be rendered unreadable. Again, not impossible, but...)

Sorry, but I'm afraid that you have a case only if you can demonstrate that a large (that is, statistically significant) number of drives are failing before the MTBF. If, say, 60% of drives die before the MBTF, that would be significant. 51% dying, not so. Furthermore, a lot of drives die not because of a problem with the drive, but because of external factors: heat, power mishaps, gravity, static electricity, and moisture would be the biggies. You'd better be able to prove that the drive didn't get too hot, that it didn't get wet or even was running in conditions which were too humid, (heat and humidity factors are listed in the operating conditions of the system) and that you didn't drop it or drop something on it, and that the drive electronics didn't get zapped by static electricity (usually caused by someone who's not grounded properly handling the drive) and that the local power company didn't kill the drive with a surge or a sag or bad frequency.

Just buy a new drive and have done. The old 40GB drives in older eMacs were dogs, anyway; a nice new Hitachi 250GB drive will have six times the space, spin 30% faster, and use less power. And only costs about $100 to 130, depending on where you buy it.

Hi, ok this may not have anything to do with an emac.... but are hard drives really prone to go caput in that short of a time? My hard drive was 9 months old I bought my i book g4 when tiger came out , and 9 months later, my hard drive has just fried to peices. No explanation, I was literally waking it up from sleep and the infamous question mark came up! I am really baffled with it because it is so new, not to mention frustrated. And no one seems to be able to give me an answer. Also, just two months ago i sent it in for a new cd-rom drive. Did i just get a lemon? I didn't know they exsisted in the worlds of Macs.... please if you ahve any info or reasoning or anything to make me feel a little bit better that the drive ended so soon that would be great .... also what kind of external do you have ... i am in the market for one

Hi, ok this may not have anything to do with an
emac.... but are hard drives really prone to go caput
in that short of a time?

I've had hard drives which were dead on arrival. Wouldn't spin.

My hard drive was 9 months
old

Usually if a drive dies early it'll either be DOA or will go in the first week or two. Drives that make it past the first month plus are usually (note the magic word) good for yeas of service.

But, remember always, the platter(s) in a hard drive spin at thousands of revolutions per second. (3600 rpm for older drives, 4000 rpm for laptop drives, 5400 rpm for newer drives and fast laptop drives, 7200 rpm for fast desktop drives, 10,000 rpm and more for fast workstation and server class drives) The clearance between the read/write head and the platter is so small that a human hair or even a fingerprint or the tiniest flex in the platter will block the head, usually causing a catastrophic head crash. ('Head crash' = 'very dead hard drive') Hard drives in laptops tend to die earlier, because laptops move... and sometimes they move in a way to cause the drive platter to be just a little out of alignment... Oops. Bye, bye, hard drive.

I bought my i book g4 when tiger came out ,
and 9 months later, my hard drive has just fried to
peices.

Are you sure it's the drive?

No explanation, I was literally waking it up
from sleep and the infamous question mark came up!

That could be several things, starting with a directory problem.

I
am really baffled with it because it is so new, not
to mention frustrated. And no one seems to be able to
give me an answer. Also, just two months ago i sent
it in for a new cd-rom drive. Did i just get a lemon?

A better question is "Was it dropped while the drive was spinning?" Another good question is "Did whoever opened the machine up adhere to proper anti-static procedures?"

I didn't know they exsisted in the worlds of Macs....

They do. Trust me on this. They're rare, though. What's not so rare is a machine getting staticed, or getting dropped.

please if you ahve any info or reasoning or anything
to make me feel a little bit better that the drive
ended so soon that would be great .... also what kind
of external do you have ... i am in the market for one

I use LaCie and Seagate externals.

hey, thanks for the help... but in all honesty i have been extra careful in basically not moving the machine... so it defenitley did not drop. Also, i dont know about the static thing becasue i wasnt there when they opened up the computer the first time to fix my cd rom drive.... this still is just really crazy to me

Sometimes things just break. Laptop drives are generally pretty reliable, but anything with parts that tiny is going to have a higher likelihood of failure than would a more robust mechanism. I've replaced probably a dozen drives in Dell laptops (out of about 100 total units) over the last year.

Anyway, if you want help concretely diagnosing the problem, I'd suggest you start a new topic in the iBook G4 forum.

Regards.