Previous 1 2 3 Next 112 Replies Latest reply: Dec 18, 2012 1:01 PM by este.el.paz
este.el.paz Level 1 Level 1 (90 points)

Folks:

 

Lately have had a run of KPs in my ten year old +- G4 iMac . . . so we know it's "old" but overall when it's running well, it's fine.  I ran the Apple Hardware test and that shows "OK" . . . I have SmartReporter and that shows fine.  I booted up in ext HD and ran DU to Repair Disk, and I ran Onyx as well . . . .  Today, I was trying to see if it was related to the browser, lately Ten4Fox, so I switched back to Camino but got the same "we don't support your browser" and KP there as well . . . .  Then I tried to not use the internet at all and things were going well for awhile, but then got another KP that way.  The computer has stopped generating "Crash Reports" to send to Apple and now just gives the kernel panic in a CLI note in black bars with white text that drops down over the desktop; multiple times the "grey" screen with the "You need to restart" happened, we aren't wasting time doing that now . . . the mouse and screen freezes and the CLI kernel trap info shows up.  BTW, I also had done a PRAM reset, and then I saw BDAqua's post here about doing it three times, which I did the other day and it seemed like the problem was fixed . . . until today with 3 of them.  Seems like it can happen right on revive from sleep or after running the computer for awhile.  Any thoughts?  I've been told already, "It's time for a new computer" and I'm reconciled to that in the near-long term as the "answer" . . . just wondering if I can get some insight into troubleshooting my dear old G4 friend and keep it going for awhile longer???  Can anybody hep me?  Final note, I've got the int HD partitioned and running Xu/Lu 12.0.4, the crash problem started there and that's not new, but then continued over into the OSX side.  Today, I was logged into Xu/Lu and did not have any KP while there . . . but did again back in OSX . . . .  Is it "soft" or "hard" ware issue?  I can't tell . . . .  Many thanks for any insights.

 

e.e.p.


MBP 15 2.53 GHz, Mac OS X (10.6.8), iBook G4, 14, 933 MHz (10.4.11), iMac G4, 15, 800MHz
  • BDAqua Level 10 Level 10 (119,030 points)

    Hello again,

     

    Open console in Applications>Utilities, check the system log for the date/time of the last problem  & the Startup right after that for clues.

    Might be time to replace the PRAM Battery, 4 years is close to their lifespan, far less if ever without AC power, & can cause strange problems...

    http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Newer%20Technology/BAA36VPRAM/ 

  • este.el.paz Level 1 Level 1 (90 points)

    BDAqua wrote:

     

    Hello again,

     

    Open console in Applications>Utilities, check the system log for the date/time of the last problem  & the Startup right after that for clues.

    Might be time to replace the PRAM Battery, 4 years is close to their lifespan, far less if ever without AC power, & can cause strange problems...

    http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Newer%20Technology/BAA36VPRAM/ 

    BDAqua:

     

    Howdy again as well, nice to hear from you; I'm at work now so I'm away from the iMac right now, I did check the System log right after the first panic today . . . couldn't see anything that jumped out in plain English to give a clue . . . .  But, "true confession" time here, you told me about the PRAM battery a while back, some months ago and, not having the right tools to break open the case or any knowledge to do anything once it is open . . . the PRAM battery remains . . . original . . . .  : - 0   I did check out the link back then and see that the battery is not expensive, it's just the time and being tool-less that has interfered with due diligence.  It's possible that the PRAM battery issue might have caused problems in the Linux side of things since I've had to try about 6 different installs of maybe 4 distros, but really the OSX side has been rock solid until last week or so.  The computer is plugged in all the time, and I did see posts where folks were commenting that their PRAM battery was fryed but the computer ran OK even though it was showing a date from the 70's or whatever . . . .  So far the Date & Time are showing correct . . . .  If we say, "dude, it's the battery," OK, but is there other things to check that don't entail "physical labor" . . . like breaking open the unit and rifling over parts, etc???

     

    I'll try to look again at the System log, might be tomorrow PM before I can check it . . . .  But, anyway, thanks again for being there . . . .

     

    e.e.p.

  • BDAqua Level 10 Level 10 (119,030 points)

    I'm not aware of a G4 that needs tools to open... oh wait, is it a G4 iMac?

  • este.el.paz Level 1 Level 1 (90 points)

    BDAqua wrote:

     

    I'm not aware of a G4 that needs tools to open... oh wait, is it a G4 iMac?

    BDAqua:

     

    [Voice of Austin Powers speaking]:  "Yeah baby, this is the G4 iMac!!!!" . . . [back to reality voice] tools are required to remove the tiny, tiny screws on the bottom of the machine . . . too many other projects going on.  Well, I was on the iMac a few minutes ago, looking at the system log trying to copy/paste the pre/post KP stuff, and, again there was a KP, that was after about 15 minutes of checking emails and leaving the computer running while I did other stuff . . . and I was about to paste that into my reply here . . . when we got the drop-down grey screen announcing we were once again "out of business in the iMac."  Doesn't seem like it was running long enough for it to be a "heat based" problem???  I refired the computer got the Crash report to send to apple, I copied it and emailed it to myself and was about to copy/paste it here when within a few short minutes . . . we "crashed" . . . .  So, I'm giving the iMac a rest before resuming play . . . but I have the most recent crash report that was going to be sent to Apple and I could post it here inline or as attachment if that will do anything constructive????

     

    e.e.p.

  • BDAqua Level 10 Level 10 (119,030 points)

    Doesn't seem like it was running long enough for it to be a "heat based" problem???

    Actually, if it's something like the thermal paste no longer being good, 20 seconds can be enough to over heat.

     

    Depending how big the report is, copying & pasting the text in a reply might help us.

  • este.el.paz Level 1 Level 1 (90 points)

    BDAqua:

     

    Ah, "thermal paste" . . . Austin Powers didn't think about that one . . . possibly there is a flaw in the thermal paste . . . .   BTW, I did get some expert feedback on one of my earlier crash reports and the different RAM types was pointed out as a possible source of problems . . . and indeed it might be, but that difference has been there since the very first day . . . ten + years ago???  Would that suddenly become a problem?  The previous reports didn't seem to offer much in terms of clues . . . this is the first time I saw "uncorrectable machine check" . . . that sounds more serious . . . even ominous . . . maybe this is all due to the impending Halloween?????  Hmmmmmmmm . . . .

     

    e.e.p.

     

     

    panic(cpu 0 caller 0x000A8C00): Uncorrectable machine check: pc = 00000000000A3650, msr = 0000000000141000, dsisr = 40000000, dar = 00000000000BD000

      AsyncSrc = 0000000000000000, CoreFIR = 0000000000000000

         L2FIR = 0000000000000000,  BusFir = 0000000000000000

     

    Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:

          Backtrace:

             0x000954F8 0x00095A10 0x00026898 0x000A8C00 0x000A7E90 0x000ABB80

    Proceeding back via exception chain:

       Exception state (sv=0x2D62E500)

          PC=0x000A3650; MSR=0x00141000; DAR=0x000BD000; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x0009D0EC; R1=0x0CED3C50; XCP=0x00000008 (0x200 - Machine check)

          Backtrace:

    0x00000000 0x0009A1FC 0x00098F78 0x00062AC8 0x000A865C 0x000ABB80

       Exception state (sv=0x2D5EC500)

          PC=0xFFFF8A50; MSR=0x0200D030; DAR=0x000BD000; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x00024638; R1=0xBFFF6FD0; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)

     

    Kernel version:

    Darwin Kernel Version 8.11.0: Wed Oct 10 18:26:00 PDT 2007; root:xnu-792.24.17~1/RELEASE_PPCModel: PowerMac4,2, BootROM 4.3.4f2, 1 processors, PowerPC G4  (2.1), 800 MHz, 512 MB

    Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce2 MX, GeForce2 MX, AGP, 32 MB

    Memory Module: DIMM0/J12, 256 MB, SDRAM, PC100-322S

    Memory Module: DIMM1/J13, 256 MB, SDRAM, PC133-333

    AirPort: AirPort, 9.52

    Modem: Dash2, UCJ, V.92, 1.0F, APPLE VERSION 2.6.6

    Network Service: Built-in Ethernet, Ethernet, en0

    Parallel ATA Device: ST360020A, 55.9 GB

    Parallel ATA Device: PIONEER DVD-RW  DVR-104

    USB Device: Keyboard Hub, Apple, Inc., Up to 12 Mb/sec, 500 mA

    USB Device: USB/PS2 Wheel Mouse, Kensington, Up to 1.5 Mb/sec, 100 mA

    USB Device: Apple Keyboard, Apple, Inc, Up to 1.5 Mb/sec, 220 mA

    Model: PowerMac4,2, BootROM 4.3.4f2, 1 processors, PowerPC G4  (2.1), 800 MHz, 512 MB

    Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce2 MX, GeForce2 MX, AGP, 32 MB

    Memory Module: DIMM0/J12, 256 MB, SDRAM, PC100-322S

    Memory Module: DIMM1/J13, 256 MB, SDRAM, PC133-333

    AirPort: AirPort, 9.52

    Modem: Dash2, UCJ, V.92, 1.0F, APPLE VERSION 2.6.6

    Network Service: Built-in Ethernet, Ethernet, en0

    Parallel ATA Device: ST360020A, 55.9 GB

    Parallel ATA Device: PIONEER DVD-RW  DVR-104

    USB Device: Keyboard Hub, Apple, Inc., Up to 12 Mb/sec, 500 mA

    USB Device: USB/PS2 Wheel Mouse, Kensington, Up to 1.5 Mb/sec, 100 mA

    USB Device: Apple Keyboard, Apple, Inc, Up to 1.5 Mb/sec, 220 mA

  • BDAqua Level 10 Level 10 (119,030 points)

    Well, it is some Hardware problem, do you know if it has an Airport card in it?

     

    If allowed to cool does it boot longer?

     

    One way to test is to Safe Boot from the HD, (holding Shift key down at bootup), run Disk Utility in Applications>Utilities, then highlight your drive, click on Repair Permissions, Test for problem in Safe Mode...

     

    PS. Safe boot may stay on the gray radian for a long time, let it go, it's trying to repair the Hard Drive

     

    Reboot, test again.

     

    If it only does it in Regular Boot, then it could be some hardware problem like Video card, (Quartz is turned off in Safe Mode), or Airport, or some USB or Firewire device, or 3rd party add-on, Check System Preferences>Accounts>Login Items window to see if it or something relevant is listed.

     

    Check the System Preferences>Other Row, for 3rd party Pref Panes.

  • este.el.paz Level 1 Level 1 (90 points)

    BDAqua wrote:

     

    Well, it is some Hardware problem, do you know if it has an Airport card in it?

    If allowed to cool does it boot longer?

    One way to test is to Safe Boot from the HD, (holding Shift key down at bootup), run Disk Utility in Applications>Utilities, then highlight your drive, click on Repair Permissions, Test for problem in Safe Mode...

    PS. Safe boot may stay on the gray radian for a long time, let it go, it's trying to repair the Hard Drive

    Reboot, test again.

    If it only does it in Regular Boot, then it could be some hardware problem like Video card, (Quartz is turned off in Safe Mode), or Airport, or some USB or Firewire device, or 3rd party add-on, Check System Preferences>Accounts>Login Items window to see if it or something relevant is listed.

    Check the System Preferences>Other Row, for 3rd party Pref Panes.

     

    BDAqua:

     

    Thanks for the details, it does have an airport card, but it is hardwired to ethernet connection.  I did let it sit for awhile and then booted into the Linux side and it ran for about twenty minutes before the mouse froze and the GUI became "unresponsive" . . . .  Thanks for the reminder on the Safe boot option, I did see one of your posts to another poster suggesting that option and I've tried to do that a couple times, but this might be one of the problems associated with partitioning the internal HD because on restart the Yaboot window kicks in first and I have to select "L" or "M" and then it's booting right into "Regular Boot"???  I couldn't get it to do a Safe boot; perhaps there is either Safe Boot in Linux?  Or, since it looks like impending doom of some component anyway, I could erase the four hour Linux installation and just revert to pure OSX partition and try to Safe Boot. 

    As part of my education and as warm up to next phase of computer development being a possible Hackintosh unit project (have to start getting some tools), if it's possible figure out what part exactly is taking a dive and then try to replace it, that might be helpful toward getting some Hackintosh skilz going . . . .  I'm letting the iMac cool off before trying to check the System Prefs thingie . . . I did do the repair permissions when the problem first happened and I repeated it yesterday after the first crash . . . but we're on to 5 KPs since then . . . .  I may give myself a breather before I erase the Linux side, I've got so much time sunk in getting something Linux to run on the iMac it's hard to just flush that to get to a Safe Boot.  But, I don't know enough about Linux CLI to run anything diagnostic there, although I checked DU in Linux and that has a feature that tests  whether the disc is "healthy" or not and the disks all showed as "healthy" . . . both the OSX and Linux side were "OK" . . . .  Of course that isn't "hardware" . . .  Might be taking a break for a day or so before messing with the iMac anymore . . . other stuff pressing . . . .

     

    e.e.p.

  • BDAqua Level 10 Level 10 (119,030 points)

    Not sure if this works on that old of a Mac, but...

     

    If for some reason you can't use the keyboard method to start in Safe Mode (the keyboard is missing or not working, for example), and you already have remote access to the computer, you can configure the computer to startup in Safe Mode via its command line

     

     

       1. Access the command line by either opening Terminal remotely, or by logging into the computer from another via SSH.

       2. Execute the following command in Terminal or on the command line:

     

     

          sudo nvram boot-args="-x"

     

     

          (If you want to start in Verbose mode as well, use sudo nvram boot-args="-x -v" instead )

          

     

     

       3. After using Safe Boot, to return to a normal startup, execute this command in Terminal or the command line:

     

     

          sudo nvram boot-args=""

     

     

    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1455

  • este.el.paz Level 1 Level 1 (90 points)

    BDAqua:

     

    I'm amazed that it seems that the return to the thread after signing in seems to have returned to the forum?  But, BDAq, another question before I try to use the Terminal to boot Safe Mode, you mentione the Verbose mode as did the Apple KB link you provided--but what does using Verbose mode offer as distinct from just regular Safe mode?  I'll try the Terminal approach to boot to Safe mode probably tomorrow, but I'm just wondering what would to verbose or not to verbose do for me??

     

    e.e.p.

     

    PS:  Also wanted to mention that I read yr post to someone asking about ML and whether to upgrade to it, and your reply suggesting that "If there is no need then maybe SL is OK" . . . was helpful . . . .  I'm running 10.6.8 on my 2010 MBPro and it's fine . . . seeing that there has been some issues with wifi on 10.8 (albeit possibly a few) makes me hesitate since I need a solid wifi connection on the laptop . . . just don't have time to play with getting an OS to do what it should do on a floating laptop . . . there's just a 2011 iPod Touch and I don't need that one to go to iOS6 really.  However, the problem remains that if we want to keep our computers longer than 2 years we have to upgrade or fall behind the browser technology . . . as my iMac running Tiger is more fully experiencing, hence the jump to Linux about 1.5 yrs back . . . spent most of my time trying to get something that worked on it, if Pops Apple would just keep a working browser for its old units there would be no need to look at alternatives.  Anyway, looks like the iMac will either need to be reinvigorated or it's life is much shorter--I'll wait to play with Lion or ML when I get the Hackintosh going . . . the 4GB download on a 2+MB/sec connection would take me back to my old dial-up download times . . . . : - ))

  • BDAqua Level 10 Level 10 (119,030 points)

    what does using Verbose mode offer as distinct from just regular Safe mode?

    It displays a log of what is happening on bootup so we might see where it fails exactly.

  • Texas Mac Man Level 8 Level 8 (46,535 points)

    Understanding crash logs isn’t easy and it’s hard (sometimes impossible) to decipher the cause of the problem. Take a look at Apple’s Crash Reporter document at http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn2004/tn2123.html Also look at Tutorial: An introduction to reading Mac OS X crash reports

    http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=20060309075929717

     

    Kernel panics are usually caused by a hardware problem – frequently RAM, a USB device or a Firewire device. What external devices do you have connected? When trying to troubleshoot problems, disconnect all external devices except your monitor, keyboard and mouse. Do you experience the same problems?

     

    To eliminate RAM being the problem, Look at this link: Testing RAM @ http://guides.macrumors.com/Testing_RAM Then download & use Memtest & Ramber.

     

    Do you have an Apple Hardware Test disc (the AHT is on the Install/Restore DVD that came with your Mac)? Running the Apple Hardware Test in Loop Mode is an excellent troubleshooting step for finding intermittent hardware problems. It is especially useful when troubleshooting intermittent kernel panics. If Loop Mode is supported by the version of the Apple Hardware Test you are using, you run the Extended Test in Loop Mode by pressing Control-L before starting the test. Looping On should appear in the right window. Then click the Extended Test button.The test will run continuously until a problem is found. If a problem is found, the test will cease to loop, indicating the problem it found. If the test fails, be sure to write down the exact message associated with the failure.In some cases, RAM problems did not show up until nearly 40 loops, so give it a good run.

     

    May be a solution on one of these links.

     

    http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106227 What's a "kernel panic"? (Mac OS X)

     

    http://www.macmaps.com/kernelpanic.html Mac OS X Kernel Panic FAQ

     

    http://www.index-site.com/kernelpanic.html Mac OS X Kernel Panic FAQ

     

    http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/kernelpanics.html Resolving Kernel Panics

     

    http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=20060911080447777 Avoiding and eliminating Kernel panics

     

    http://macosg.com/group/viewtopic.php?t=800 12-Step Program to Isolate Freezes and/or Kernel Panics

     

     Cheers, Tom

  • este.el.paz Level 1 Level 1 (90 points)

    @BDAqua && Texas Mac Man:

     

    Thanks for both of your replies, thanks to Texas Tom for all the data on kernel panics, much appreciated, but it might be much ado about nothing,  we'll see if the continuing saga of keeping the iMac going continues or has come to an end through my own hand. 

     

    To follow up on the latest developments just amplifies the whole tragi-comedy of the iMac's life in the last 6 months or so . . . .  I set up the Terminal to boot into Safe mode as prescribed by BDAqua . . . and then after I had done that I saw TMM's post about disconnecting peripherals, so, being a scientist, I did that too . . . so it would be more clear . . . .  : - ))  And then I ran the computer, and it was at night (cooler) and it ran for almost an hour without a problem--I put it to sleep.  In the morning (after some rare rain) the iMac woke and ran again as long as I could stand it, 15 - 20 minutes (both times longer than prior to Safe booting mode and disconnecting extras), put it to sleep.  In the afternoon (warmer) it woke from sleep just fine and I ran it for almost an hour, even tried to watch some videos about how to build my own computer, but Camino & Ten4Fox both have Flash disabled--anyway, point being that the computer warmed up--but didn't KP and I put it back to sleep.  At 5:30 I again tried to revive the iMac from sleep and the processor spun up, but the screen stayed black . . . and so I shut it down . . . .  On restart the Safe Boot screen came on and it said "'Macinto' (the OSX HD, named after the famous Seminole Indian chief) appears to be OK" . . . nothing of note was mentioned.  I then tried to do TMM's "Extended Loop test" . . . but the iMac's AHT is version 1.2 and didn't do the loop thing; I ran it again . . . everything "Passed" . . . twice.  Here's where the story gets darker . . . I had from the early .Mac days a "Tech Tool Deluxe" CD with written notes on the outside, "Doesn't work for 10.4" . . . but I tried it anyway, and it booted into an OS 9.1 splash screen, with "starting up" blue cig showing 10%, after a few minutes it hadn't moved so I shut the computer down. 

     

    Then I got the brilliant idea to see if I could use Startup Disk in SP to boot OS 9.2 to see if that would do anything different in OS9, although I wasn't sure if 9 was still there . . . went to SP, SD showed a possible 9.2.2. disk to start from, a little voice said, "Maybe 9 got wiped upgrading from 10.1 to 10.4 a couple years back?" . . . but I clicked on it in the interest of science . . . and we booted into a, flashing Question mark!!!!!  Nothing America hates more than a flashing question mark, right???  I became incensed, lost all bodily control . . . *** I raged, "Why am I seeing a question mark?????"  I shut it down, and rebooted . . . the Question mark was still there flashing at me, I did it again, same result.  I unplugged the computer, same difference a few minutes later; I tried to boot into Target mode, didn't work--the flashing Question remains hardwired . . . obviously I did something in the GUI like the commands BDA gave me to boot into Safe Boot, and now we're stuck with . . . a freakin' Question mark!!!!!!--is this anyway for my dignified older iMac to end????? 

     

    So gents, is there a way short of surgery to get out of this Startup Disk mode?  I was hoping I could boot the iMac to Target and somehow use my iBook to go in and change the selection, but that doesn't seem to be working . . . .  Is this the end, will the flashing question mark be the last gasp from my old companion??????  Would I have to surgically remove the HD, and then somehow either install a new one and begin again to install OSX and possibly another partition, etc?  Might not be economically feasible . . . but, any keyboard key combos to over-ride the SD flashing question mark problem?????

     

     

    e.e.p.

  • BDAqua Level 10 Level 10 (119,030 points)

    The ability to chose OS9 as Startup Disk shows it's there, the ? mark just means it can't find what it needs to boot OS9.

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