Why Multiple Kernel "issues" w/G4 iMac/Tiger?

BDAqua wrote:

Hello again,

Open console in Applications>Utilities, check the system log for the date/time of the last problem & the Startup right after that for clues.

Might be time to replace the PRAM Battery, 4 years is close to their lifespan, far less if ever without AC power, & can cause strange problems...

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Newer%20Technology/BAA36VPRAM/

BDAqua:

Howdy again as well, nice to hear from you; I'm at work now so I'm away from the iMac right now, I did check the System log right after the first panic today . . . couldn't see anything that jumped out in plain English to give a clue . . . . But, "true confession" time here, you told me about the PRAM battery a while back, some months ago and, not having the right tools to break open the case or any knowledge to do anything once it is open . . . the PRAM battery remains . . . original . . . . : - 0 I did check out the link back then and see that the battery is not expensive, it's just the time and being tool-less that has interfered with due diligence. It's possible that the PRAM battery issue might have caused problems in the Linux side of things since I've had to try about 6 different installs of maybe 4 distros, but really the OSX side has been rock solid until last week or so. The computer is plugged in all the time, and I did see posts where folks were commenting that their PRAM battery was fryed but the computer ran OK even though it was showing a date from the 70's or whatever . . . . So far the Date & Time are showing correct . . . . If we say, "dude, it's the battery," OK, but is there other things to check that don't entail "physical labor" . . . like breaking open the unit and rifling over parts, etc???

I'll try to look again at the System log, might be tomorrow PM before I can check it . . . . But, anyway, thanks again for being there . . . .

e.e.p.

BDAqua wrote:

I'm not aware of a G4 that needs tools to open... oh wait, is it a G4 iMac?

BDAqua:

[Voice of Austin Powers speaking]: "Yeah baby, this is the G4 iMac!!!!" . . . [back to reality voice] tools are required to remove the tiny, tiny screws on the bottom of the machine . . . too many other projects going on. Well, I was on the iMac a few minutes ago, looking at the system log trying to copy/paste the pre/post KP stuff, and, again there was a KP, that was after about 15 minutes of checking emails and leaving the computer running while I did other stuff . . . and I was about to paste that into my reply here . . . when we got the drop-down grey screen announcing we were once again "out of business in the iMac." Doesn't seem like it was running long enough for it to be a "heat based" problem??? I refired the computer got the Crash report to send to apple, I copied it and emailed it to myself and was about to copy/paste it here when within a few short minutes . . . we "crashed" . . . . So, I'm giving the iMac a rest before resuming play . . . but I have the most recent crash report that was going to be sent to Apple and I could post it here inline or as attachment if that will do anything constructive????

e.e.p.

BDAqua:

Ah, "thermal paste" . . . Austin Powers didn't think about that one . . . possibly there is a flaw in the thermal paste . . . . BTW, I did get some expert feedback on one of my earlier crash reports and the different RAM types was pointed out as a possible source of problems . . . and indeed it might be, but that difference has been there since the very first day . . . ten + years ago??? Would that suddenly become a problem? The previous reports didn't seem to offer much in terms of clues . . . this is the first time I saw "uncorrectable machine check" . . . that sounds more serious . . . even ominous . . . maybe this is all due to the impending Halloween????? Hmmmmmmmm . . . .

e.e.p.

panic(cpu 0 caller 0x000A8C00): Uncorrectable machine check: pc = 00000000000A3650, msr = 0000000000141000, dsisr = 40000000, dar = 00000000000BD000

AsyncSrc = 0000000000000000, CoreFIR = 0000000000000000

L2FIR = 0000000000000000, BusFir = 0000000000000000

Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:

Backtrace:

0x000954F8 0x00095A10 0x00026898 0x000A8C00 0x000A7E90 0x000ABB80

Proceeding back via exception chain:

Exception state (sv=0x2D62E500)

PC=0x000A3650; MSR=0x00141000; DAR=0x000BD000; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x0009D0EC; R1=0x0CED3C50; XCP=0x00000008 (0x200 - Machine check)

Backtrace:

0x00000000 0x0009A1FC 0x00098F78 0x00062AC8 0x000A865C 0x000ABB80

Exception state (sv=0x2D5EC500)

PC=0xFFFF8A50; MSR=0x0200D030; DAR=0x000BD000; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x00024638; R1=0xBFFF6FD0; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)

Kernel version:

Darwin Kernel Version 8.11.0: Wed Oct 10 18:26:00 PDT 2007; root:xnu-792.24.17~1/RELEASE_PPCModel: PowerMac4,2, BootROM 4.3.4f2, 1 processors, PowerPC G4 (2.1), 800 MHz, 512 MB

Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce2 MX, GeForce2 MX, AGP, 32 MB

Memory Module: DIMM0/J12, 256 MB, SDRAM, PC100-322S

Memory Module: DIMM1/J13, 256 MB, SDRAM, PC133-333

AirPort: AirPort, 9.52

Modem: Dash2, UCJ, V.92, 1.0F, APPLE VERSION 2.6.6

Network Service: Built-in Ethernet, Ethernet, en0

Parallel ATA Device: ST360020A, 55.9 GB

Parallel ATA Device: PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-104

USB Device: Keyboard Hub, Apple, Inc., Up to 12 Mb/sec, 500 mA

USB Device: USB/PS2 Wheel Mouse, Kensington, Up to 1.5 Mb/sec, 100 mA

USB Device: Apple Keyboard, Apple, Inc, Up to 1.5 Mb/sec, 220 mA

Model: PowerMac4,2, BootROM 4.3.4f2, 1 processors, PowerPC G4 (2.1), 800 MHz, 512 MB

Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce2 MX, GeForce2 MX, AGP, 32 MB

Memory Module: DIMM0/J12, 256 MB, SDRAM, PC100-322S

Memory Module: DIMM1/J13, 256 MB, SDRAM, PC133-333

AirPort: AirPort, 9.52

Modem: Dash2, UCJ, V.92, 1.0F, APPLE VERSION 2.6.6

Network Service: Built-in Ethernet, Ethernet, en0

Parallel ATA Device: ST360020A, 55.9 GB

Parallel ATA Device: PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-104

USB Device: Keyboard Hub, Apple, Inc., Up to 12 Mb/sec, 500 mA

USB Device: USB/PS2 Wheel Mouse, Kensington, Up to 1.5 Mb/sec, 100 mA

USB Device: Apple Keyboard, Apple, Inc, Up to 1.5 Mb/sec, 220 mA

BDAqua wrote:

Well, it is some Hardware problem, do you know if it has an Airport card in it?

If allowed to cool does it boot longer?

One way to test is to Safe Boot from the HD, (holding Shift key down at bootup), run Disk Utility in Applications>Utilities, then highlight your drive, click on Repair Permissions, Test for problem in Safe Mode...

PS. Safe boot may stay on the gray radian for a long time, let it go, it's trying to repair the Hard Drive

Reboot, test again.

If it only does it in Regular Boot, then it could be some hardware problem like Video card, (Quartz is turned off in Safe Mode), or Airport, or some USB or Firewire device, or 3rd party add-on, Check System Preferences>Accounts>Login Items window to see if it or something relevant is listed.

Check the System Preferences>Other Row, for 3rd party Pref Panes.

BDAqua:

Thanks for the details, it does have an airport card, but it is hardwired to ethernet connection. I did let it sit for awhile and then booted into the Linux side and it ran for about twenty minutes before the mouse froze and the GUI became "unresponsive" . . . . Thanks for the reminder on the Safe boot option, I did see one of your posts to another poster suggesting that option and I've tried to do that a couple times, but this might be one of the problems associated with partitioning the internal HD because on restart the Yaboot window kicks in first and I have to select "L" or "M" and then it's booting right into "Regular Boot"??? I couldn't get it to do a Safe boot; perhaps there is either Safe Boot in Linux? Or, since it looks like impending doom of some component anyway, I could erase the four hour Linux installation and just revert to pure OSX partition and try to Safe Boot.

As part of my education and as warm up to next phase of computer development being a possible Hackintosh unit project (have to start getting some tools), if it's possible figure out what part exactly is taking a dive and then try to replace it, that might be helpful toward getting some Hackintosh skilz going . . . . I'm letting the iMac cool off before trying to check the System Prefs thingie . . . I did do the repair permissions when the problem first happened and I repeated it yesterday after the first crash . . . but we're on to 5 KPs since then . . . . I may give myself a breather before I erase the Linux side, I've got so much time sunk in getting something Linux to run on the iMac it's hard to just flush that to get to a Safe Boot. But, I don't know enough about Linux CLI to run anything diagnostic there, although I checked DU in Linux and that has a feature that tests whether the disc is "healthy" or not and the disks all showed as "healthy" . . . both the OSX and Linux side were "OK" . . . . Of course that isn't "hardware" . . . Might be taking a break for a day or so before messing with the iMac anymore . . . other stuff pressing . . . .

e.e.p.

BDAqua:

I'm amazed that it seems that the return to the thread after signing in seems to have returned to the forum? But, BDAq, another question before I try to use the Terminal to boot Safe Mode, you mentione the Verbose mode as did the Apple KB link you provided--but what does using Verbose mode offer as distinct from just regular Safe mode? I'll try the Terminal approach to boot to Safe mode probably tomorrow, but I'm just wondering what would to verbose or not to verbose do for me??

e.e.p.

PS: Also wanted to mention that I read yr post to someone asking about ML and whether to upgrade to it, and your reply suggesting that "If there is no need then maybe SL is OK" . . . was helpful . . . . I'm running 10.6.8 on my 2010 MBPro and it's fine . . . seeing that there has been some issues with wifi on 10.8 (albeit possibly a few) makes me hesitate since I need a solid wifi connection on the laptop . . . just don't have time to play with getting an OS to do what it should do on a floating laptop . . . there's just a 2011 iPod Touch and I don't need that one to go to iOS6 really. However, the problem remains that if we want to keep our computers longer than 2 years we have to upgrade or fall behind the browser technology . . . as my iMac running Tiger is more fully experiencing, hence the jump to Linux about 1.5 yrs back . . . spent most of my time trying to get something that worked on it, if Pops Apple would just keep a working browser for its old units there would be no need to look at alternatives. Anyway, looks like the iMac will either need to be reinvigorated or it's life is much shorter--I'll wait to play with Lion or ML when I get the Hackintosh going . . . the 4GB download on a 2+MB/sec connection would take me back to my old dial-up download times . . . . : - ))

@BDAqua && Texas Mac Man:

Thanks for both of your replies, thanks to Texas Tom for all the data on kernel panics, much appreciated, but it might be much ado about nothing, we'll see if the continuing saga of keeping the iMac going continues or has come to an end through my own hand.

To follow up on the latest developments just amplifies the whole tragi-comedy of the iMac's life in the last 6 months or so . . . . I set up the Terminal to boot into Safe mode as prescribed by BDAqua . . . and then after I had done that I saw TMM's post about disconnecting peripherals, so, being a scientist, I did that too . . . so it would be more clear . . . . : - )) And then I ran the computer, and it was at night (cooler) and it ran for almost an hour without a problem--I put it to sleep. In the morning (after some rare rain) the iMac woke and ran again as long as I could stand it, 15 - 20 minutes (both times longer than prior to Safe booting mode and disconnecting extras), put it to sleep. In the afternoon (warmer) it woke from sleep just fine and I ran it for almost an hour, even tried to watch some videos about how to build my own computer, but Camino & Ten4Fox both have Flash disabled--anyway, point being that the computer warmed up--but didn't KP and I put it back to sleep. At 5:30 I again tried to revive the iMac from sleep and the processor spun up, but the screen stayed black . . . and so I shut it down . . . . On restart the Safe Boot screen came on and it said "'Macinto' (the OSX HD, named after the famous Seminole Indian chief) appears to be OK" . . . nothing of note was mentioned. I then tried to do TMM's "Extended Loop test" . . . but the iMac's AHT is version 1.2 and didn't do the loop thing; I ran it again . . . everything "Passed" . . . twice. Here's where the story gets darker . . . I had from the early .Mac days a "Tech Tool Deluxe" CD with written notes on the outside, "Doesn't work for 10.4" . . . but I tried it anyway, and it booted into an OS 9.1 splash screen, with "starting up" blue cig showing 10%, after a few minutes it hadn't moved so I shut the computer down.

Then I got the brilliant idea to see if I could use Startup Disk in SP to boot OS 9.2 to see if that would do anything different in OS9, although I wasn't sure if 9 was still there . . . went to SP, SD showed a possible 9.2.2. disk to start from, a little voice said, "Maybe 9 got wiped upgrading from 10.1 to 10.4 a couple years back?" . . . but I clicked on it in the interest of science . . . and we booted into a, flashing Question mark!!!!! Nothing America hates more than a flashing question mark, right??? I became incensed, lost all bodily control . . . *** I raged, "Why am I seeing a question mark?????" I shut it down, and rebooted . . . the Question mark was still there flashing at me, I did it again, same result. I unplugged the computer, same difference a few minutes later; I tried to boot into Target mode, didn't work--the flashing Question remains hardwired . . . obviously I did something in the GUI like the commands BDA gave me to boot into Safe Boot, and now we're stuck with . . . a freakin' Question mark!!!!!!--is this anyway for my dignified older iMac to end?????

So gents, is there a way short of surgery to get out of this Startup Disk mode? I was hoping I could boot the iMac to Target and somehow use my iBook to go in and change the selection, but that doesn't seem to be working . . . . Is this the end, will the flashing question mark be the last gasp from my old companion?????? Would I have to surgically remove the HD, and then somehow either install a new one and begin again to install OSX and possibly another partition, etc? Might not be economically feasible . . . but, any keyboard key combos to over-ride the SD flashing question mark problem?????

e.e.p.

BDAqua:

I do appreciate your reply . . . I get that if it shows up it must be there and perhaps doesn't know where to find itself, but the problem is that I can't get passed the flashing question mark . . . it won't boot 9 and I can't or don't know how to get back to being able to boot OSX. And it is interfering with any other functions, such as opening Op drive tray, etc . . . .

e.e.p.