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No DVD drive in new iMac ???

So I have just completely upgraded my 15 years of home movies on DVD over the last year.

I converted video, old DVDs and used imovie to make great copies for all the family.


I just learned that if I get a new imac from Dec 2012, they have no DVD drive ?

What ?

If its true, then I need to buy into some device that can play and burn them for the next years.


Yep, Apple have a vision, but I cannot see it and I am 50.

In 180 months , when I am 65, I wont care about the visons of Apple.

But i will care about the memories on the discs and as Apple dont let on why they restrict the continuation or stop the use or anyone else using aformat that quite honestly is massively serviceable today and will be for some years.


Glad I dint chucj out the old dell and also, I will going fire her up to play my movies and memories. Steve Jobs is pictured on some of those DVDs, guess the new guys wanted to move on pretty fast from that era too !


Hmmm, now where is the off button, I need to do some exercise and get real again !


see ya

iMac (27-inch Mid 2011)

Posted on Oct 23, 2012 3:19 PM

Reply
Question marked as Top-ranking reply

Posted on Oct 23, 2012 3:30 PM

Just do what I will be doing: don't buy a new iMac! 👿


With no Firewire you won't be able to connect your video camera either!

1,509 replies

Dec 1, 2013 5:40 AM in response to grandfield

Why not just get an external DVD or BluRay burner? I used to love burning CDs, because I could because I had a CDRW drive, I bought a stack of empty CD-Rs, but only used a few of them ... for some pirated stuff 😝, 650MB is pretty pathethic nowadays, unusable even, disc swaping is especially sucky. Media files are getting so big now, DVDs won't hold much either, even blu-ray is just 25GB, and how many people have a blu-ray player? Will your media play in their player even? The best storage is external hard drives, if you want to store anything, that's the way to go. If you want to share memories on video, then get that external blu-ray drive that also burns DVDs, you can move it to any computer that needs it.


Move with the times, DVDs are so last gen, this gen isn't even blu-ray, this gen is Cloud storage services and Tarabytes of networked RAID, I think ... pretty close in any case.

Dec 1, 2013 8:35 AM in response to nerdatheart

If you think storing to hard drive is a secure and dollar efficient way to keep your data... Then you are a home user without much knowledge of archiving important information. A hard drive is the most costly and, as far as longivity of storage, expensive way you can store data. You will lose your information sooner or later unless you are running raid 1 backup storage and rotating your disks out on a regular basis to account for mechanical failure.


Current optical backups have a much longer lifespan than any other media available. For cost data tape is the cheapest, but moving data from tape to disk is somewhat cumbersome and requires large banks to to it effisiently. It you want SUPER longivity in your data archive storage the new M-DISK (which again is optical stroage) is the most reliable with a shelf life of 1,332 years. It uses laser etched stone in stead of organic dye to store data.


Yes, many are downloading movies for a "watch-one-time" experience, but when it comes to your family videos and important documents clouds and unreliable storage are not the place to be.

Dec 1, 2013 11:03 AM in response to justamacguy

justamacguy wrote:

Current optical backups have a much longer lifespan than any other media available.

Don't be too sure about that. According to this FAQ published by the U.S. Federal National Archives, conventional burned optical discs have an archival shelf life of only 2-5 years (FAQ #6), despite manufacturers' claims of 25 years or more. Moreover, it is suggested that those discs be checked for data integrity every two years, which few users would be willing to do.


M-Disks are expected to last as long as the polycarbonate substrate does, around 1000 years. But they require a special optical drive with a high power laser, are confined to relatively slow (4X) write speeds, aren't cheap (roughly 60¢ per GB), & take up a lot of physical space (4.7 GB per disk max). They would be great for archiving really important documents, but are not very practical for day-to-day backups.


And of course, if you want to use this format, you will have to buy an external drive anyway.

Dec 1, 2013 12:02 PM in response to R C-R



R C-R wrote:

According to this FAQ published by the U.S. Federal National Archives, conventional burned optical discs have an archival shelf life of only 2-5 years

That link is superficial info at very best for a newbie.


The life of junk DVD blank media is a known entity, of course.


That link doesnt even mention how important DVD+R over DVD-R


Obviously I dont really care if it lasts 70 or 100 years, I wont be around, LoL


See here about the technology.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/5/prweb10786336.htm


If governments acknowledge them and professional labs as "100+ year disks" , I do as well.

At 20% more than cheap consumer grade DVD blanks, its a no-brainer.

Also having burned many 1000s of DVD blanks, I know these disks have a very very low reject rate too.

We both know the nature of HD and server farms. CHEAP GOOD long-term optical storage is this, and ONLY this.



I use the same ones the pros are using Taiyo Yuden (JVC). Oddly, these professional DVD blank media are only 20% more than the cheap junk. been using them for years.


Point is junk DVD blanks are rated for 10 or so years, these special professional disks are not disputed to last "less than 60+ years"

Outside of stone carvings or copper plates, OR microfilm (lol)........the LONGEST CHEAP storage are "century DVD blank media"

Global governments are using them, and those who need hard and fast long term storage.




Archival Grade Gold DVD blanks

Manufactured using proprietary, unique dual reflective layers, these discs maximize both compatibility and longevity. To further extend media life, UltraLife™ Gold Archival Grade DVD-R’s contain a hard coating on the recording side to protect surface from scratches. In proper environmental conditions, these discs are designed to last up to 100 years.

The specifications refer to “dual reflective layer technology” – is this a Dual Layer DVD (DVD-R DL)?

No. In terms of storage capacity, the UltraLife™ Gold Archival Grade DVD-R discs are single layer discs with a 4.7GB storage capacity.


Why 2 layers? What purpose does each layer serve?

The highly reflective silver layer allows the Ultra-Life DVD-R to look like a standard silver disc to DVD drives and burners, providing a low initial error rate and the same drive read/write compatibility as standard silver-only discs. The gold reflective layer, naturally resistant to corrosion, prevents oxygen from corroding the silver reflective layer, a common factor in limiting the life of DVD media.


What is AZO™ Technology?

AZO™ recording dye is a patented technology, which provides the highest level of read/write performance, reliability and archival life for your DVD Recordable media.


Can I record over data on an UltraLife™ Gold DVD-R?

No. Like other DVD Recordable media, UltaLife™ Gold DVD-R’s are single layer DVD discs designed for one-time recording.




Use DVD+R for your archives, not DVD-R

As to the type of professional DVD blank media: DVD-R is inferior for data preservation for several reasons: error correction, wobble tracking, and writing method. For a DVD to track where it is on the disc, it uses three things: the ‘wobble’ of the data track to tell where it is in the track, the position of the track to tell where it is on the disc, and some additional information where on the disc to tell where the track begins and ends. On –R media, the ATIP is stored as a frequency modulation in the wobble itself; since the wobble changes subtly to encode data, it is impossible to use with the small size of tracks DVD requires, as electric noise in the laser pickup and wobbles introduced by the electric motor spinning the disc, these could easily be read as frequency changes in the real track itself.

On DVD-R this problem had been attempted to be solved by ‘pre-pits’ where spikes in the amplitude of the wobble appear due to pits fully out of phase with the rest of the track (between two spirals of the track, where there is no data). This can be viewed as a simple improvement over CD-R as it makes it easier to track the wobble. This method has one flaw: due to electric noise in the laser pickup, it would be very easy to miss the pre-pit (or read one that wasn’t actually there) if the disc were damaged or spun at fast speeds. DVD-R traded hard to track frequency changes for hard to read wobble-encoded data.

On a DVD+R there is a better write method. Instead of changing the frequency of the wobble, or causing amplitude spikes in the wobble, they use complete phase changes. Where DVD-R’s methods make you choose between either easy wobble tracking or easy ATIP reading, DVD+R method makes it very easy to track the wobble, and also very easy to encode data into the wobble. DVD+R method is called ADIP (Address In Pre-groove).

Now, the third item on the list: how DVD+R discs burn better. ATIP/pre-pit/ADIP stores information about optimum power control settings. DVD-R basically fails on all three accounts because DVD+R simply includes far more information about the media in the ADIP data than DVD-R does in it’s pre-pit data. DVD+R includes four optimum profiles, one for four major burning speeds. Each of these profiles includes optimum power output based on laser wavelength, more precise laser power settings, and other additional information. With this information, any DVD+R burner can far more optimize its burning strategy to fit the media than it can with DVD-R, thereby providing better burns.

DVD+R also gives four times more scratch space for the drive to calibrate the laser on; more space can only improve the calibration quality. So DVD+R media exists to simply produce better burns and protect your data better, which when it comes to data hub archiving is of vital importance.



Of course there are other options


Paper 1000 years

copper/gold many thousands of years

stone million years (lol)

optical 10 years junk DVD... 100+ years metal compound-layer professional media

ferromagnetic (HD, TAPE) 3 to 30 years (commercial tape) (5-15 years for HD)

carborundum just invented, rated for 1 million years i.e. "sapphire drive"


(humor)

😊

Dec 1, 2013 12:50 PM in response to Klaus1

I recently upgraded from an '08 iMac to a Late 2013 27" iMac. I create quite a few movies and presentations and couldn't be happier.


I have Apple's external SuperDrive for my MacBook Air and it works fine with my new iMac. However any USB external DVD/CD drive will work. I also have an external Bluray drive that works well (although an additional app is required if you want to watch or rip Blurays).


I still burn DVDs with iDVD using the non-Apple drive without any problems.


Apple's Thunderbolt to Firewire Adapter works quite well for connecting cameras, external drives, etc. Transfer rates are not impacted.


FWIW my "solution" was to convert all of my physical media (DVDs) to digital files on an external SSD. The ease and convenience of accessing all of my files almost instantly was worth the investment. YMMV of course.


In any case, it's very easy and inexpensive to connect an external DVD drive and enjoy a new iMac.


My two cents. Hope that helps!

Dec 1, 2013 2:27 PM in response to R C-R

That is a nice FAQ from the Nation Archives… Whom ever wrote it did a nice piece, with absolutely NO documentation. They ought to be fired. If you want to see the REAL data read the NIST/Library of Congress Optical Longevity Study (http://www.loc.gov/preservation/resources/rt/NIST_LC_OpticalDiscLongevity.pdf). The bottom line from their study is “We then estimate the 95% survival probability with 95% confidence to be 9.33x10 to the 4th power hours or about 10.7 years.”


The real fact is that nobody really knows what the average life span is because nobody has been around long enough to see what it is under natural conditions. All of the test that are done are based on artificially aging the discs.


With that said. If you use cheap discs you can expect an increased failure rate. If you use quality discs or discs rated for archive you can expect long lifespans. I have disc written from 1985 on what was considered the best media at the time (gold colored) that read fine. I have used, what I call “distribution” discs for advertising purposes where longevity is not an issue and some of those have been dead after a couple of years. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.


As far as M-disc requiring a special drive… the drive is nothing more than a slightly modified BluRay or DVD drive. In fact I would expect that most optical drives going forward will have the feature added to them. The cost of an internal BluRay is very affordable. If you haven’t heard of it, there is a place where you can generally get good price on computer stuff. It’s call amazon.com.


$65 internal BluRay with M-disc (BH14NS40)

http://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-Internal-Rewriter-WH14NS40/dp/B007VPGL5U/re f=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1385933531&sr=1-2&keywords=BH14NS40


$127 external USB 3.0 BluRay with M-disc (BE14NU40)

http://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-Super-Multi-External-BE14NU40/dp/B00ACOQF2Q /ref=sr_1_19?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1385934131&sr=1-19&keywords=m-disc


$74 slim portable BluRay with M-disc (BP40NS20)

http://www.amazon.com/LG-Portable-Blu-ray-Playback-BP40NS20/dp/B006X2HD2M/ref=sr _1_12?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1385934213&sr=1-12&keywords=m-disc


As you can see, they are no more expensive than current BluRay drives. If you price out DVD drives with M-disc they are also available for as little as $21. I don’t think that is an unreasonable price. (http://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-Super-Multi-Internal-GH24NS95B/dp/B009F1DYF 8/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1385934378&sr=1-1&keywords=dvd+m+disc)


As for your price per gig I feel really bad that you are paying that much. If you go to supermediastore.com you can buy a 50 disc spindle for $129. That is a cost of about 10¢ per gig.


…and as you stated, “great for archiving really important documents”. The number one response to the question asked by firemen across the US “If your house caught on fire, what would be the one thing you would save?” The answer consistently includes “The family photo album.” How would you feel if you lost every picture in your family album? What are your memories worth? $100 or more?


And, to your last comment, “…you will have to buy an external drive anyway.” That is what worries me with Apple. Not only are they discontinuing the internal drive. Their software support for it is going away as well. No more iDVD, no more DVD Studio Pro. These should be evolving into iBluRay and iBluRay Studio Pro. Thank heaven for Adobe and Roxio for keeping the Mac in the ballgame.

Dec 1, 2013 2:35 PM in response to justamacguy


justamacguy wrote:

That is what worries me with Apple. Not only are they discontinuing the internal drive. Their software support for it is going away as well. No more iDVD, no more DVD Studio Pro. These should be evolving into iBluRay and iBluRay Studio Pro. Thank heaven for Adobe and Roxio for keeping the Mac in the ballgame.



DVD media support WITH an Apple is going nowhere, ...even if Apple were to drop it all, there are countless suppliers for hardware and Media.


Superdrives currently are Panasonic made.


Even if people didnt care about archival grade media (they should) the fact that:


1. Taiyo Yuden DVD+R media blanks are only 20% costly more than junk-grade DVD

2. last longer, are rated for 60-100+ years (depending on which disk variety they sell)

3. Have an extremely LOW reject rate


all this makes $40 for a 100 spindle of disks worth it



Report is somewhere I cant find that show that the old standard "GOLD DVD" are now irrelevant cost-wise due to recent technology changes in archival professional DVD media such as Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden.

Dec 1, 2013 3:03 PM in response to justamacguy

M-Disk prices are outrageous


http://www.amazon.com/M-DISC-DVD-Cake-Box-Pack/dp/B005Y4NL5I/ref=sr_1_2?s=electr onics&ie=UTF8&qid=1385938355&sr=1-2&keywords=m+disc


Thats $260 per 100




The govt. report you cited above indicated no diff. in indicated long-term life on the Professional archival media.



The Taiyo Yuden group invented the CD itself,....their established standard at $40 per 100 and rated for 100 years is "good enough"



There is no evidence they last longer than Taiyo Yuden pro media


will the M-DISK take more abuse? likely,...however i dont plan on taking my DVD media out for a concrete skate.



The recently invented sapphire drives, which write to platinum between synthetic sapphire, i.e. carborundum are promised to last 1+ MILLION years.


Costs currently are $30,000 per drive.


Theres 'archival' for you.

Dec 1, 2013 3:15 PM in response to Baby-Boomer-USofA

I also have a lot of relatives who do not access Flickr, Facebook, etc. For them I burn DVD's of family photos.


The fact of the matter is ther are still $billions in sales of software, music, and movies, on optical disk. Apple was premature in removing the drive, but they don't care, they simply want to push people to purchase content from them.


Personally I love being able to rent a movie for $1.20 at Redbox, and then watch it in my iMac, without having to run out and pay $80 for an external drive.

Dec 1, 2013 3:26 PM in response to justamacguy

justamacguy

Here is a "more than real world test".

http://www.zdnet.com/torture-testing-the-1000-year-dvd-7000023203/



Some independent tests show that the bottom surface of the M-disks are "unusually soft" Hmm, not good.

User uploaded file




Taiyo Yuden produced ‘Super Cyanine’, a chemically stabilized version of the original Cyanine dye designs, while TDK offers media that uses ‘metal-stabilized Cyanine’ dye, leading to similar shelf lives as Taiyo Yuden’s media. Taiyo Yuden states their Super Cyanine dye is chemically stable for at least 70 years, and TDK states their metal-stabilized Cyanine is also stable for 70 years.




Not good:

M-discs are ~0.07 millimeters thicker than normal DVD media. These discs will not load into the slot loading drive of my Macbook

No DVD drive in new iMac ???

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