Q: No DVD drive in new iMac ???

zBernie2 wrote:

Yea, Apple is trying to phase out optical drives because they want to force you to purchase content from them.

Then why does Apple sell external USB SuperDrives?

In 2012, there was a 6.5 percent increase in Mac sales, even though tablets were selling like hotcakes.  Now in 2013 a 5% drop in Mac sales?  It's definitely because of the omission of an optical drive.

Then how do you explain the even greater drop in PC sales, almost all of which do have optical drives?

I've never been forced into buying content from Apple, in fact, I've never had to buy any content. Oh sorry, I obtained iWorks much the same as I had to obtain Office, a microsoft only product. What that has to do with an optical drive I don't understand.

I simply don't mind being locked into a system and don't see the difference between buying into Sky or Cable for a tv/phone/bb package or buying into a computer system.

I don't have a need for an optical drive and never had a need for one when I had a windows pc. Did'nt even need it to load the os and any software I downloaded. Did'nt have the need to burn either.

As regards Ports, presumably you're now talking about a Tower rather than an All in One? Want a Tower with an optical drive and ports at the front as well, just buy one.

Your marketing assessment and example do not add up. Fact - sales of digital media increased. Fact - sales of disc media decreasing and at a faster rate.

Sales of windows pcs' also dropping yet they incorporate optical drives. Strange interpretation of sales and marketing stats. One type of PC sales drop through omission of optical drive yet another type of PC that has optical drives also drop.

Yes, there maybe a % of people who walk away from mac due to the omission of an optical drive but they do not account for the whole of any Apple's drop in sales and will undoubtedly be in the minority.

zBernie2… your living in the past when you are quoting 2012 statistics. You need to look at what is happening this year. The Mac is losing share. Apple needs to do something to make it more attractive. Currently no new pro Mac in the lineup. iMac is not full featured like it once was. Thunderbolt, although a fantastic technology is having a hard time gaining traction. Is Apple losing its shine?

2013 First Quarter:

The Company sold 4.1 million Macs, compared to 5.2 million in the year-ago quarter.

2013 Second Quarter:

The Company sold just under 4 million Macs, compared to 4 million in the year-ago quarter.

2013 Third Quarter:

The Company sold 3.8 million Macs, compared to 4 million in the year-ago quarter.

Single-month sales for June dipped 12 percent, in spite of the launch of an upgraded MacBook Air.

The heat generated by the lasers in a fast optical drive is not in excess to that of a slow one. The laser may be more powerful to accomodat the faster spin of the disk, but the burn time of the laser is shorter. The result is an overall average temperture equal to the slower optical burners.

An example of thiis would be if you pick up a pan off the stove when it is set at a low cooking temperature. You hold the pan in your hand until it starts to burn your hand and then you set it down. Turn the temperature on the stove up to high, and when you pick up the pan you let it go at a faster rate to keep from burning yourself. Although the pan is hotter in the second incident, the reduced exposure time resulted in the same input to your hand.

Same thing happens with the disc. To actually giet a significant incease in temperature the higher powered laser would have to contact the media at the same duration as the slower laser to increase the temperature. But it doesn't. It has to impact the disc media at a given specification that changes the reflictive qualities of the disc. If it actually hit the disc surface at a rate exceding spec it would destroy the media and make it unreadable.

There are two ways to get to the proper burn temperature. And the resulting final temperature is going to be the same.

low power + long duration = Xº

high power + short duration = Xº

So in summary... who gives a rats butt because you are not going to put a full height drive in an all in one anyway.

justamacguy wrote:

The heat generated by the lasers in a fast optical drive is not in excess to that of a slow one. The laser may be more powerful to accomodat the faster spin of the disk, but the burn time of the laser is shorter. The result is an overall average temperture equal to the slower optical burners.

The overall average temperature isn't the governing factor. The laser runs at higher power so it heats up almost instantly to a higher temperature. And because that changes the wavelength of the emitted light, the focus changes, requiring a more complex focusing mechanism to stabilize the beam. You said the lasers were the same in low & high speed burners. That's flat wrong, just like your comment about power requirements & the rest of it.

As for who cares about full height burners, it is anybody who wants to burn discs quickly & reliably.

Well, in April I was about to purchase the new iMac until I discovered it had no built-in drive.

I was shocked and surprised. After careful consideration, I just got my new 27" iMac and am reporting from that machine now. I was so excited as I always am when purchasing a new 'Mac". I bought the external Super Drive and it sits nicely under the screen. No problem here. This is fast, quiet, large, light, and "Coooool". I highly reccomend this computer to anyone that appreciates "Macs".

Over on another Mac forum site there is a zBernie referred to as the whack job entitlement nut, is that you?

I can post a copy of the post here in case you are unsure.

not me. Just stating my experience. I have gotten every post to this thread since April and see his name a lot. I am just saying. This is my 7th "Mac" and so far, my favorite.

I was addressing zBernie2, not you.

Please find me one source that shows the optical drive run hotter because of the power of the laser. As I stated. The disc media has a given temperature that it must be written "burned" at in order to meet specification so it can be read by all devices designed to the accepted standard.

In the old optical discs the media would spin at a veritable speed so the laser would make the same sized "pit" of burn mark for reading. In current high speed optical discs the media spins at a fixed speed and the laser pulse varies to keep the pits uniform. As the speed increases the laser has to use more power (especially on the outer portion of the disc since it spins faster than the inner) but the contact time is less resulting in the same temperature on the media at all points (inside track and outside track).

Light, no matter how strong it is, does not generate heat until it strikes a surface. Here is the patent application that shows how it works.

https://www.google.com/patents/US5249172

"In a device (CAV) which drives the optical disk 6 at a constant velocity irrespective of the position of the optical head 8, the linear velocity of the optical head 8 relative to the optical disk 6 increases as the optical head 8 approaches the outside circumference of the optical disk 6, and the required write laser power therefore increases. Furthermore, because the optical disk is written by a laser, the required write laser power decreases as the surface temperature of the disk increases. As a result, in the laser writing device as shown in FIG. 8, the laser power adjusting circuit 5 is previously stored with data shown in FIG. 9. In other words, in the conventional laser writing device, the provisional laser power is corrected in two steps, which are: a temperature compensation effected by selecting one of different curves shown in FIG. 9; and location compensation effected by selecting different write laser power according to the selected curve."

justamacguy wrote:

As the speed increases the laser has to use more power (especially on the outer portion of the disc since it spins faster than the inner) but the contact time is less resulting in the same temperature on the media at all points (inside track and outside track).

It isn't the media that gets hotter, it is the laser that does.

"It isn't the media that gets hotter, it is the laser that does."

Document it...

Most of the original full height DVD drives had fans built in. As the chipsets and motors have become more energy efficient they have dropped the fans in the drives.

To clarify this I do mean the "FAN IN THE DRIVE" not on the case like the link you sent. My latest stack burner only has a fan on the power supply. It contains 8 BluRay capable Pioneer burners which have NO fan. If they were indeed getting hotter don't you think Pioneer would continue to put the fan in the mechanism like they used to?

If you purchase a drive case with multiple interface connections, particularly firewire or thunderbolt it will have a fan in it as these circuit board generate a ton of heat.

We are using this case with our drives.

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/VL2STOPTU2/

Works fine and guess what… No fan. Do you really think OWC would sell something that would make an optical drive fail?

If the iMac is supposed to be all wonderfully quiet as has been preached here, why would you want to ruin that experience by adding a case with a fan in it running all the time?

justamacguy wrote:

Document it...

Consult any physics textbook. I'm not going to try to teach you the basic principles of physics, or argue with you about this anymore.

It should be obvious to anyone with a technical or scientific background that you don't know what you are talking about. For those that remain unconvinced, I can only suggest that you do your own research.

You don't mind being locked into a system and you don't see the difference?  I can't help you then.  Good luck with that.

"Locked in" might be an issue for someone who didn't research a product prior to purchase especially in this price range. I'd say the individual got what he or she deserved if this was the case and didn't discover this prior to purchase or certainly before the refund period was up.

Personally, I just can't understand why it's that big of a deal. Buy an external drive, do without or buy a PC if it's a problem...job done.