Previous 1 2 3 4 Next 1,411 Replies Latest reply: Jan 7, 2015 1:40 AM by Barry Wilbraham1 Go to original post Branched to a new discussion.
  • britny Level 1 Level 1 (125 points)

    and if this thing doesn't sell well (and i won't be getting one as i use physical media) the conclusion apple will get is that people just don't want desktops any more. in 2008 apple dropped firewire on their unibody macbooks and the following year they brought it back. so i guess there's hope.

  • pipogoro Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Hi there!!! I'll need thunderbolt to firewire adapter one for 800, one for 400, unless I get an 800 to 400 cable and give it a try with the camera. And I'll need a hub for USB, of course I can always unplug stuff!!! But I would use one USB  for iphone/ipad, one for DVD, one for sxs card reader and one for flash card reader…. Now a days I still use plug-in keyboard and mouse because I don’t like charging batteries; so I’ll probably have to charge the keyboard and mouse batteries now added to my video camera’s batteries, photocamera’s, Flashes’s, torchs’s, DAT’s(only sometimes now a days), laptop’s, etc…. See I hate charging batteries… Regretably I won’t be able to buy a Mac Pro as I would actually need but the iMac it’s still a great option just not a good DVD or port solution that I actually need…It's a pity cause it's a great machine!!!!

  • R C-R Level 6 Level 6 (16,555 points)

    pipogoro wrote:

    I'll need thunderbolt to firewire adapter one for 800, one for 400, unless I get an 800 to 400 cable and give it a try with the camera.

    I'm not sure that Thunderbolt to FW400 adaptors are available but of course you should be able to use an 800 to 400 adapter or cable with the Thunderbolt adaptor because FW 800 is backwards compatible with FW400. (From a practical standpoint, I suggest getting a thin, flexible FW cable if possible to reduce the strain on the Thunderbolt adaptor -- typically, these short Apple adaptors are not particularly robust.)

     

    And I'll need a hub for USB, of course I can always unplug stuff!!! {…} Now a days I still use plug-in keyboard and mouse...

    You could continue to use your existing wired keyboard & mouse if you want. If the keyboard is a recent Apple one, it has two USB ports. You could use one for the mouse & the other for something else. But if you need to buy a new USB hub, I suggest getting a USB 3 one, preferably one with a power adaptor. As much as I think FW is technically superior to USB, the market has spoken and (as is usually true) has opted for the cheaper solution. So looking into the future, new FW devices will get rarer & become progressively less cost effective for a given level of performance.

     

    A quick check of prices shows 3.0 "superspeed" hubs with power adaptors are not too expensive, typically about $30 for 4 port ones & $50 or so for 7 port ones. They are probably good investments … until USB 4 or something else is developed to replace it.

  • MichelPM Level 6 Level 6 (9,865 points)

    Everyone is moaning and groaning about the lack of an  optical drive!

    Folks, if you own any type of Mac, you, probably, already have a bunch of external stuff connected to it.

    If you use time machine or use some other backup strategy, you have external hard drives connected to your Macs. Perhaps an external USB hub? You get the idea.

    Users have additionak external stuff connected to their Macs or iMacs.

    What is the real big deal here?

    I think the big deal is now Apple doesn't give you that option no longer.

    You now HAVE TO BUY that external writable drive now, if needed.

    It's probably better this way. There are better external  writable optical drives on the market than what Apple was installing into the iMac.

    User would still pitch a fit when the OD would fail prematurely and end up buying an external OD, anyways.

    I was, and still am using an external CD/DVD writing optical drive to copy/ burn discs back and forth on my Macs and recent iMac. I didn't want to wear out my iMac's internal Super Drive ( I noted that that there are/were many iMac users here whose iMac internal SuperDrives had failed) so, I am using a more robust external disc writer, anyways.

    The optical drives in the current iMac line seem to fail even quicker?

    The brand/ quality of the internal optical drives, in iMacs, seems to be questionable.

    Getting data into your Mac was always easier than getting data out of it. Apple has, for the most part, always left the end user stuck with that responsibility.

    The end of the optical drive seems to me no different.

  • MichelPM Level 6 Level 6 (9,865 points)

    The FireWire issue is solved by purchasing a FireWire to Thunderbolt adapter from Apple.

    So, there is no loss of usability in that regard with continuing to use FireWire drives and other FW peripherals.

  • pipogoro Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    That's a great idea!!!! Thanks!!!! The only thing is I don't know, cause I don't have thunderbolt at the moment, is if I buy a disk solution like a drobo or something can I pull a display from it with no problem in performance??? Meaning, will the raid work at it's best and the display also if they are wired to the same port??? Or it's still better to have each pluged to a single port???

  • R C-R Level 6 Level 6 (16,555 points)

    pipogoro wrote:

    Meaning, will the raid work at it's best and the display also if they are wired to the same port??? Or it's still better to have each pluged to a single port???

    Apple says you can daisy chain up to six devices plus one display on a single Thunderbolt port. (The fine print says the display has to be the last item on the chain.)

     

    Obviously, if you hang enough high speed devices on one port that need bus access at the same time, performance will suffer. However, Thunderbolt gives priority to displays & even the largest, highest resolution available ones don't require enough bandwidth to saturate one of Thunderbolt's two channels, so in practical terms, it is very unlikely that you would see any performance reduction even if you put the fastest available Thunderbolt RAID, the largest available display, & a few other lower speed devices on the same Thunderbolt port.

  • pipogoro Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Michel PM On regard to the optical drive issue is kind of like buying shoes and being charged for laces.... You need the shoes and most people need the laces... It's a new computer, it's a hybrid solution, it's a desktop that should have one more thunderbolt an 2 USB more to be comfty to the guys that as you say, we have a bunch of stuff pluged to it. At  least I'm thinking in the 27"...

     

    It should be a full flash solution and not half mac book pro retina/ half iMac. Us that are used to mac expect the very best all the time, it doesn't matter  if you have to pay a little more. But when you are charged for stuff that should be delivered to begin with and you don't, then you end up getting cranky... And with reason most people like me been waiting for new iMac to do upgrade, now I'll have to wait a little longer to see what happens....

     

    They've made a system that handle large files and renders faster but it's complicated uploading and downloading the material... since you have to buy a bunch of adapters and pray that the cameras and har drives work with thuntherbolt... They offer a half way solution and they take away stuff. They should take away but give a little back. Give a better solution to DVD than a common dirty USB drive... How about a wifi drive o bluetooth drive...

     

    I'll end up buying it as it comes because I need it  not because I feel it's the best choice without question as I did before... So I might get cranky yes but don't think they are completly wrong nor I think I'm completly wrong...

  • pipogoro Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    RCR you're the man!!!!Dude!!!! You give me much better perspective on what to buy!!! Thanks!!!!

  • R C-R Level 6 Level 6 (16,555 points)

    MichelPM wrote:

    I think the big deal is now Apple doesn't give you that option no longer.

    You now HAVE TO BUY that external writable drive now, if needed.

    It's probably better this way.

    I (mostly) agree with you about this. Optical drives are subject to a lot of failure modes that sealed drives aren't: contamination on discs that get transferred to the drive's laser or mechanical parts, adhesive labels that come off & get stuck, things that shouldn't be inserted in the slot but are by accident (especially by kids), & so on.

     

    If I were relying on an optical drive for frequent or critical work, I would opt for an external one that could be replaced or repaired without the expense or hassle of opening my iMac, which might result in my having to put it into a shop & doing without it for several days or maybe even longer.

     

    But that said, for occasional, non-critical use I would prefer that an optical drive be built-in for connivence & to spare me the cost of having to buy an external one.

  • seventy one Level 6 Level 6 (11,160 points)

    Surely, Apple products should not be subject to failure any more than any other new product, and at their cost, rather less.  

    What this is all about is profit.  

    The new iMac costs more than the old version.

    There are several items once supplied, you now have to buy separately (add that to the machine cost).

    And as I said earlier, the design is more vulnerable to damage being so much slimmer ... which means it is bound to be more costly to repair if only because more items crammed together in a smaller space means more will get damaged.

    It's logical.

  • R C-R Level 6 Level 6 (16,555 points)

    pipogoro wrote:

    It's a new computer, it's a hybrid solution, it's a desktop that should have one more thunderbolt an 2 USB more to be comfty to the guys that as you say, we have a bunch of stuff pluged to it.

    I'm not sure why you say it should have more of these ports. You can daisy chain multiple Thunderbolt devices on one port & add many more USB devices with hubs. As it is, if you start plugging stuff to all the existing ports, it gets awkward to manage all the cables, tilt the iMac without dislodging something, or finding room for everything on a desktop.

     

    Also keep in mind that everything adds to the cost & people are already complaining about that. If Apple built-in everything that some of you want, those that don't need all that would have to pay more for capabilities they would never use.

    Give a better solution to DVD than a common dirty USB drive... How about a wifi drive o bluetooth drive...

    I'm not sure what you mean about "a common dirty USB drive" -- Apple makes a stand-alone Superdrive ($79) & other companies make optical drives as well. Also consider that going forward eventually even FW 800 drives will be slower than USB 3 ones, &  far more expensive because of the mass market for USB 3.0.

     

    As for wireless drives, Bluetooth is probably too slow to be of much use & drives with a built-in WiFi host would be expensive. If you want WiFi storage, you might check out an Airport Extreme Base Station, which supports USB 2.0 drives, but that isn't going to wow you on speed. Remember that all the computing power you pay for in upgraded iMacs isn't of much value if it is hobbled by slow storage, which is one reason Apple isn't likely to support solutions that most users would find unacceptably slow.

     

    I'm afraid it boils down to who would complain the most, & at least in Apple's estimation that isn't the group of users with lots of FW gear or the ones that still rely heavily on optical drives.

  • R C-R Level 6 Level 6 (16,555 points)

    seventy one wrote:

    Surely, Apple products should not be subject to failure any more than any other new product, and at their cost, rather less.

    There isn't anything Apple can do about the failure modes of optical drives besides devise some new standard like integrated carriers that protect the discs. That's been tried before with various kinds of removable media & buyers mostly aren't willing to pay the extra cost of such media, so they have flopped. Besides, users would scream bloody murder if Apple introduced a new optical disk standard now.

    What this is all about is profit.

    Yes, it is about profit, but it is also about other things, like driving the adoption of new standards that enable new capabilities & lower the cost of existing ones to users. For example, Apple was the first personal computer maker to drop floppy disk drives in favor of CD drives. At the time, people screamed about the high costs of CD-R's vs. floppies & predicted nobody would use them. But now CD-R's & even DVD-R's are so cheap nobody considers their costs to be worth worrying about.

     

    In fact, the same thing was true for USB. Before Apple started making them standard on the first generation iMacs, so few PC's included them that what lille USB gear you could find was much more expensive than the stuff with the old PC serial interfaces. Now, USB gear of every imaginable type is cheap & plentiful. Most longtime industry watchers credit Apple with legitimizing USB, which is pretty remarkable given the tiny market share Macs had at the time.

     

    Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying it isn't painful to bear the costs of Apple's changes, because believe me it is more painful for a retired guy like me than for many others. I'm just saying there is more to this than profit alone.

  • seventy one Level 6 Level 6 (11,160 points)

    Thanks R C-R,

     

    Nicely said.   I'm retired too, hence the (mini) complaint.   But I really can't afford to be tied to a machine that has built in obsolescence that raises its head far too often. 

  • Rudegar Level 7 Level 7 (22,475 points)

    good riddance very very very rare I use mine

    mechanical storage is a pain better to have an external dusty one in the

    draw you can use those odd times one need to read a optical disc

     

    it's the same deal as when apple removed the floppy drive some people will always be upset

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