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hotwheels 22 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

i am trying to finalize my application of metadata to the images in albums that are important to me.

 

does anyone know whether the fact that i have applied it to an image in an ALBUM as opposed to the image in a PROJECT matters at all? i mean, i apply this metadata to an image that exists anywhere and it will populate the other versions, yes?

 

i think this is an obvious question but my brain is a little overworked ATM.

 

thanks for any help.


MacBook Pro, OS X Mountain Lion (10.8.1), with 64 bit Win7 Parallels
  • léonie Level 9 Level 9 (78,000 points)

    Jon,

    If you add an image version from a project to an album it will be one and the same image. The image in the album references the version in the project. So it will not matter, if you add your keywords by accessing the image version from the album or from the project.

     

    The keywords will be added to all appearences of the image version in all albums it is contained, in the project, on the light table, in any book it is in.

     

    Regards

    Léonie

  • hotwheels 22 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    thank you leonie. XMP and IPTC have scrambled my brain a bit...

     

    can i also please ask you about /renaming/ these images in an Album? for instance i need to send someone these images in the album that i have finalized the metadata for and they have /names/ that will not make any sense to this person.

     

    can i rename the images in the album (before i export them to send them to them) - and while in BROWSER view (or do i have to get into LIST view to do this)? also, does changing the name of the image in the Album change the original names (which i don't want to do) - if so, is there a way around this other than exporting and then renaming?

     

    does that make sense? for some reason this answer is not obvious to me...

  • Kirby Krieger Level 6 Level 6 (12,510 points)

    Every Version has its own name.

     

    Versions are not share-able image-format files.

     

    You create share-able image-format files of Versions by exporting.

     

    When you export, you select a File Naming Preset in the "Name Format" drop-down in the Version Export dialog.  The File Naming Preset determines the names of the files you create when you export.

     

    So if you want to share files with someone, you must make them and name them.  It appears the simple thing for you to do is to select the Versions you want to share, create files by exporting those Versions, as part of the process of exporting those Versions name the files you are creating something meaningful to the person to whom you are sending them, and send them.

     

    Message was edited by: Kirby Krieger -- small attempts at filling cracks.

  • hotwheels 22 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    hi kirby.

     

    thank you.

     

    so this gets tricky for me for some reason.

     

    i have versions which i have added metadata to and this metadata is getting transferred to the Original as well as all the versions as far as i understand from Leonie's answer (please correct me if i am wrong).

     

    and you are saying that the /names/ of the versions that i have in this album can be changed with no affect on other versions or on the originals?

     

    i mean, i am basically adding a publication title to the images and in this case it would be very helpful to have this title stay in the album. so if i am understanding correctly can't i simply rename the version that is in this album and then export the version (at full resolution) with current version name?

     

    THANK YOU

     

    jon

  • léonie Level 9 Level 9 (78,000 points)

    Jon, it looks like you are mixing up versions of an image with their uses in albums.

     

    Initially, you only have one version of an image, and that version will reflect exactly the original image that you imported. You create different versions of these image, if you edit it and want to keep the original version and the edited versions separate.

     

    If you add an image version to an album, you do not create a new version - you only see the same version in two places - the project and the album. The same image version can appear in hundreds of albums, but will still be only one version of the same image.

     

    When you change the name of a version, you will see the name change in all library items that contain this image version.

     

    For example, if you have image version showing a dove and a rainbow, tagged with the keywords "Rainbow" and "Bird", and have two smart albums, one with birds and one with rainbows, your one image version will be visible in both smart albums, but still you only have one image version.

     

    Regards

    Léonie

  • hotwheels 22 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    hi leonie. OK. sorry.

     

    so - assuming i would like to rename the images so that they have this name when i send them to someone via FTP and assuming that i would like to save this naming in Aperture in case i want to send them again or in case i want to add images to this set/album etc - - do i have two options?

     

    1. rename the versions in this album and thus rename all versions of this image that are in Aperture.

    2. export the versions (or maybe i have to select and export of the originals?) from this Album (i only have them all together in this one album) to my desktop and then RE-IMPORT the images to a new project and either rename the images when they are on my desktop in finder or rename them once they have arrived back in Aperture as independent images?

     

    i mean, i assume this is simple once i do it once but it is a little confusing ATM.

     

    THANKS

  • léonie Level 9 Level 9 (78,000 points)

    Jon, as Kirby said:

    "Every Version has its own name."

    If you want several different names, create different versions: Duplicate the version in the project (Photos > Duplicate version) and give the second versio a different name.

    Then use the different version in your export album, if you want to save the second name for a special purpose.

     

    Léonie

  • Kirby Krieger Level 6 Level 6 (12,510 points)

    hotwheels 22 wrote:

     

    i have versions which i have added metadata to and this metadata is getting transferred to the Original as well as all the versions as far as i understand from Leonie's answer (please correct me if i am wrong).

    Sorry -- that is not correct.  What Leonie was explaining is that it does not matter what container you use to view a Version: when you make changes to that Version, those changes will show up no matter the container.

    hotwheels 22 wrote:

     

    and you are saying that the /names/ of the versions that i have in this album can be changed with no affect on other versions or on the originals?

    Yes.  But you must be careful to understand exactly what a Version is.  You can have thousands of Versions of one Original.  You can have thousands of Albums with the same Version in each of them.  You can have thousands of Albums each containing a different Version of an Original.  These three cases are not the same.

     

    If you change the name of any one Version, it is changed everywhere in Aperture.  (Note: "Version" and "Image" are used interchangeably here, following the convention set in the Aperture User Manual.)

     

    In no case does changing the name of a Version change the name of the Original, unless you go out of your way to do this using the "Metadata➞Batch Change" command.

    hotwheels 22 wrote:

     

    i am basically adding a publication title to the images and in this case it would be very helpful to have this title stay in the album.

    All EXIF and IPTC fields, and all Aperture metadata, is Version-specific: each Version has a giant list of this stuff attached to it at all times and in all places within Aperture.  Albums have NO metadata except the Album name and the location in your Library.  If you add the "publication title" to any IPTC or Aperture metadata field of a Version, it will show wherever that Version shows.

    hotwheels 22 wrote:

     

    so if i am understanding correctly can't i simply rename the version that is in this album and then export the version (at full resolution) with current version name?

    Yes  .  But note that "that is in this Album" and "at full resolution" have nothing to do with the questions you're raising.  You can export at any time any Version from any container.  If you use the "Current Version Name" File Naming Preset, you will create files with the names of the Versions being exported.

     

    Message was edited by: Kirby Krieger -- typos, tried to clarify the final paragraph.

  • hotwheels 22 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    hi leonie.

     

    i guess i am getting confused here when i thought i understood everything perfectly.

     

    so - - is there a difference between creating a New Album from selected images (or dragging and dropping images into a New Album) and running the Photos Duplicate version you are explaining?

     

    you are saying that adding metadata to a version in an album will not change other versions (or the original in the Project) and that changing the name won't do this either?

  • hotwheels 22 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    thanks kirby.

     

    arg. god, just when i thought i new what i was doing. can i please use an example here?

     

    say i have a Project with a bunch of images in it. and i select a number of these images and i run a New Album from Selection operation. this gets me versions in an Album.

     

    then say i select those versions and i copy them to another Album.

     

    1. you are saying that there is one version in both these albums, or not?

    2. you are saying that /adding/ metadata to one of these versions also adds metadata to the other version (correct?) but not to the original in the Project (or not?)?

    3. you are saying that changing the name of one of these versions also changes the name of the other, or no?

     

    thank you

  • Kirby Krieger Level 6 Level 6 (12,510 points)

    hotwheels 22 wrote:

     

    so - assuming i would like to rename the images so that they have this name when i send them to someone via FTP and assuming that i would like to save this naming in Aperture in case i want to send them again ...

    Jon,

     

    You're missing a third option, which is (afaict, imho) the one you want.  This should be a standard practice for users of Aperture.

     

    What you want:

    - new Versions identical to old Versions, but with new names (can be any adjustment or metadata change or addtion),

    - in a permanent container you can refer back to,

    - while keeping the old Versions wherever they are.

     

    How to get what you want:

    - select the Versions

    - create a new Album; include the selected Versions.  Name the Album so you know why you created it and what it contains.

    - select all Versions in the Album

    - Duplicate them.  They will be stacked with the Version on which they are based, and will be set as the Album Pick.  Note the "Album Pick" Badge.

    - Collapse all Stacks

    - Optional: select the Versions showing and give them a color label so you can tell them apart

    - Optional: expand all Stacks to see all the pairs, one labeled, one not. Collapse them again

    - Select any Version and rename it.

    - Repeat for all Versions.

    - Select all Versions in the Album and use "File➞Export➞Versions" to create share-able image-format files. 

    - Set "Name format" to "Current Version Name"

    - Send the files you just created to your recipient.

  • hotwheels 22 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    OK. thank you so much for the help. i think i have to print some of this out and study it a bit tomorrow AM to sound intelligent or at least to think i understand this issue.

     

    i was sort of hoping to get this done tonight but i am seeing i have a bit of homework to do...

     

    thanks for helping here kirby.

     

    cheers.

  • Kirby Krieger Level 6 Level 6 (12,510 points)

    hotwheels 22 wrote:

     

    say i have a Project with a bunch of images in it.

    So far so good.  Two things to note:

         1. "Images" = Versions.  For this discussion, that will be helpful.

         2.  The Images in the Project are NOT your Originals.  Your Originals are the files you imported.  Aperture creates a Version from each file imported.  You see Versions in Aperture (unless you run "Show Original").

    and i select a number of these images

    ... also known as Versions ...

    and i run a New Album from Selection operation. this gets me versions in an Album.

    This creates an Album containing the selected Versions

    then say i select those versions and i copy them to another Album.

     

    1. you are saying that there is one version in both these albums, or not?

    Your question isn't clear to me.  You now have two Albums with different names each contained the same Versions.

    2. you are saying that /adding/ metadata to one of these versions also adds metadata to the other version (correct?) but not to the original in the Project (or not?)?

    1.  There is no "other Version".  Each Album contains _the same_ Versions.  Versions, as you know, can appear in as many Albums as you want.

     

    2.  If you change any metadata or make any adjustment to a Version anywhere in Aperture, those changes will show everywhere in Aperture that Version appears.

     

    3.  [Edited] The Original is not "in" your Project in the way that you think.  A Version of the Original is in your Project.  That Version keeps a record of which is its Original and where it is located, but the Original is best thought of as a _file_ on which Aperture bases its Versions.  Your Originals are _never_ changed (unless you go out of your way to change them).

    3. you are saying that changing the name of one of these versions also changes the name of the other, or no?

    I think you can answer that now  .  But note that you can have an unlimited number of Versions based on one Original.  As above, if you change anything about any Version anywhere it appears in Aperture, those changes will show everywhere that Version appears in Aperture.  But changes to one Version are never applied to another Version, unless you tell Aperture to apply them (by, for example, lifting and stamping your changes).

    thank you

    You're welcome.  Please re-read my short guide to Aperture -- again.  Until it makes complete sense to you, you will continue to spend whole afternoons and evenings trying to make Aperture work.

     

    Message was edited by: Kirby Krieger

  • hotwheels 22 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    hi kirby. thank you very much. your document is in fact excellent.

     

    OK. can you help me out here a little more?

     

    i am actually naming the photos according to how they should show in print with titles so naming these upon export is not really an option - AFAICT - i need to rename these individually either in Aperture or in Finder.

     

    1. can you help me find where the setting for stacked is? when i duplicate a version i do not see a stack. this image simply shows up as the same image with the same name in the same Album or Project - except it is appended with a "version 2" or "version 3" etc. i imagine there is a setting that will stack all the versions together, yes?

     

    2. also, i think i am unlikely to keep them in stacks and will instead keep them (one of each image that i need) in an Album with the new name that i need. effectively i am understanding that to rename them in Aperture as i need, i have to run a DUPLICATE VERSION and MOVE them to a new Album instead of simply dragging them to a new Album (which gives me an identical version that would also get renamed).

     

    with respect to #2, can you help me understand what exactly is the practical difference between EXPORTING these images to a folder on my desktop and RENAMING them in finder and then re-importing them into a Project and DUPLICATING them in Aperture and then RENAMING them?

     

    i guess if i export to the desktop i have to be careful not to use png as i will lose metadata but also if i re-import into Aperture i get images/versions in a PROJECT instead of images/versions in an ALBUM (when i rename them within finder). i mean - can you think of any /practical/ differences or any /downstream/ consequences to doing one as opposed to the other?

     

    THANKS and CHEERS

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