etresoft wrote:
higrys wrote:
I don't use Safari or Firefox (I did use both for some longer and shorter periods of time as well as IE and Opera, but none of them lived to my expectations).
Running IE on a Mac is an impressive trick.
Who said it was on Mac? I didn't. Quite the opposite - as I mentioned in my post I change my OS's often. It happens that currently it is OSX, but it might well be that tomorrow it will be something completely different (it happened in the past too). If you read what I wrote: Windows, Linux, Solaris, OSX - these are all OS's I used/still use. Sometimes Apple fanboys are blindfolded and forget that there are other OS's out there.
Unless your post is paid by Apple (honestly - it looks like)
The pot calling the kettle black, eh?
I am just the user of the software. That's my interest here - to get help. I am not sure what's your interest promoting switching to other browsers from chrome is, when it's clearly not a solution to the problem.
Utter nonsense. You really expect any vendor is going to make a change to the kernel, in a matter of hours, to fix one buggy program and put all other software at risk?
Please, try to read what I wrote: days (if not hours). I do expect. Other software vendors do that (usually days rather than hours of course - hours are there for really critical security problems with exploits in the wild). Some examples: Ubuntu, RedHat,
Microsoft, even Apple did itin response to this vulnerability (side note: that was vulnerability that was manifesting itself in Safari - and many people advised to switch to Firefox then). I am not sure if this is a security vulnerability, but any crash which seems to reach and block kernel is rather a sign of elevating privilleges, and clever hackers could find a way to use that backdoor to get control over the OS itself - that's hacker's heaven. Such issues should be immediately investigated by OS dev team to see if they can be exploited.
I recall many occasions developing satellite command and control systems when we found bugs that would cause the software, not to mention the satellite, to crash and burn. What did we do?
That's not a very good example. It was not a "general purpose" OS that someone delivered to 100s of millions of people to let them run any programs. I bet you have not allowed to run 3rd-party software on your satllite, it was fully controlled by your team, so you could do whatever you deemed appropriate at given time, and (because of risk involved) your procedures/QA process/development time/testing methodologies are very much different than that of general purpose OS. General purpose OS is very different beast. It has to handle many situations and cases and protect properly against any 3rd party software, because it's the bread-and-butter of the OS. The OS should be largely invisibe to the user - there is no other purpose in writing such OS: it should let other, 3rd-party programs to run. Of course, I did many workaround myself around OS limitations and bugs in the past, and I have no doubts Chrome team will try to find it as well (as they had to many times already in the past to workaround OSX and other OS's limitations). But this should not stop OS vendor from investigating and fixing the problem permanently - because other 3rd party software might soon (if not already) hit the same problems. Also - since the bug is triggered by the recent OSX update (as it is clear from Chris's comment) - it WAS introduced by Apple. Chrome scrolling WAS working ok before and STOPPED working after the OS update (not the chrome update). Guess who should be ultimately responsible for the problem?
Modern computers with GPU acceleration aren't like your old telecom hardware. GPU acceleration is a direct channel to the hardware. That's the point of it. It requires that the developers know how to do that sort of thing. If they don't, they should avoid that.
True. I am CTO in a company which now deals largely with GPU acceleration and we are often running our code directly on the hardware (mobile apps) so I know all about it. Standards like OpenGL, CUDA, etc. are written in the way to let the software access hardware in secure way. The job of OS is to implement the standards properly to not allow the application to abuse it by programming mistake. Sometimes even not allow to do certain operations if they find impossible to protect. If they fail in doing so - they should not open up for 3rd-party developers with these (or be prepared for quick fixes). There are 100s of thousands of developers out there developing 3rd-part apps for OSX. By just saying "don't do that if you are not experts" is not a good way to protect your own OS against bad impression. If Apple opens up buggy OpenGL/CUDA which allow other apps to crash the whole OS, soon they migh be flooded by a number of apps doing it and the reputation of OS will be at stake. So better they patch the problem rather than telling others that they should not use interfaces they open-up themselves.
And you accuse me of being paid by Apple? You are aware that Chrome is just a fork of Safari with some added bugs, aren't you?
That is not true statement, obviously. Chrome is (similiarly as Safari) built on top of WebKit rendering engine. WebKit is open-source and originates from KDE starting in 1998 (which was not Apple bound but cross-platform: GNU/Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris, Microsoft Windows, and OS X) and those guys should be credited for clean codebase, good modularity, separation from platform dependencies, conformance to standards. Apple obviously forked from that code - and since 2001 contributed most to development of WebKit. But then Apple open-sourced the engine in 2005. Open Source/BSD Licence = anyone can take it and contribute or build on top of it, that's the intention of open-sourcing under the BSD licence. Many other companies since contributed a lot as well. including Google Chrome team, Adobe and many others. So eventually - both Safari and Chrome are built on top of the rendering engine that was created by KDE originally and then evolved by Apple and many others. So Chrome is not Safari fork at all. While there is a common code which is shared (and many parties contribute to it), there a many things that Chrome does so much better (and is not forking of Safari by any means): syncing between browser on many OS's, better tab support, powerful extension mechanism with 1000s of good extensions out there, hardware GPU support (yes!), v8 javascript engine which gets faster with every relese, and a number of others - so nearly everything that is geared towards better usability in general (WebKit just renders HTML pages and that's about it).
This is a user-to-user tech support forum for Apple products. If you are having a problem with 3rd party software, report it to them. A forum post in a Chrome support forum is better than one here, but an actual bug report for Chrome would be better. If Chrome's developers decide that the bug is in OS X, then they will send a bug report to Apple. They should also release a patch to work around the problem.
Again, as in case of Webkit, Safari and Chrome - you are mixing products. The link you specified is for CHROMIUM not Chrome. I don't use Chromium. These are two different products (albeit sharing almost all code). Chromium is an open-source project which has a lot of the same functionality as Chrome, and is not officially supported by Google employees (though mostly them contribute). Chrome, on the other hand is supported by Google employees and the official way of reporting problem is through the forums under "Report an Issue and Get Troubleshooting Help" Category. And it's a good way to keep such issues as forum entries, because other people (like Chris) can see that they are not alone and add their own comments - which can help others or Vendor to find out what the problem is. That's how Google employees do it - they are reading the forums and often responding and helping to fix the problem. It happened to me several times that I found workarounds there before official fix was out (which I hope will happen soon).
But since - what I gather from you - no Apple employees visit the forum here, I would love to be able to create such an issue on some official Apple issue tracking/forum where Apple employees are looking at and helping - so that the guys from Google and Apple could work together on it and get Apple issue a permanent fix. That's why I cross referenced this discussion and the Google discussion hoping that it might help. Do you know of any way I can officially open an issue to Apple other than through feedback form ? The feedback form is largely a black-box which ***** everything and never gives any info about what's happening with the issue - no other people can contribute and Apple explicitely states that they "never respond" to such feedback.... Is there any other way I can report that Apple OS's bug to them?