backup with WinClone or Win7 Backup and Restore?

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backup with WinClone or Win7 Backup and Restore?

i am trying to put the finishing touches on my systems and somehow am getting confused about something.

i have a mac pro with a disk that contains Mac OS Lion, a Virtual Box installation of Windows 7 and a partition of Windows 7 using Boot Camp. the installation of the Win 7 Boot Camp actually was done by someone else as it required writing some data to a dvd or something related to the firmware on my early mac pro.

anyway, i want to get this disk backed up in a way that will let me restore my OS's in the event of corruption. i am currently using Carbon Copy Cloner to create clones to external drives and Time Machine to backup as well.

since i am in the process of switching from Parallels to Virtual Box i was just turned on to Windows 7's Backup and Restore: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/products/features/backup-and-restore

so - if i want to get all my OS's backed up can i do this to a /single/ disk? if so, how do i do this?

does the VB installation get backed up as a consequence of simply backing up the drive and the WINDOWS 7 BOOT volume get backed up by /either/ WinClone or Win7 Backup and Restore? i mean, the url above seems to indicate that i can set Windows 7 to backup to an /external/ drive but i guess i need WinClone to ALSO back up the Boot Camp installation so i can restore it, is that right?

if so, do i need to partition the backup drive in some way or can i just drop the WinClone backup /onto/ the Mac OS Lion partition and simply back this up to an external.

i have a couple of computers and i backup onto multiple drives for security so i would like to keep this as simple as possible...

TIA

MacBook Pro, OS X Mountain Lion (10.8.1), with 64 bit Win7 Parallels

Posted on Nov 21, 2012 7:48 AM

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Answer 1

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Csound1

Level 9

59,973 points

Nov 21, 2012 7:53 AM in response to hotwheels22

Backup OSX and the Virtual Machine using any normal OSX method (TM/CCC), Windows Backup is a file level data backup, you can't restore Windows from it. As for Winclone I can only suggest not relying on it (Google WinClone Problems)

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Answer 2

hotwheels22 Author

Level 1

74 points

Nov 21, 2012 8:06 AM in response to Csound1

thanks man. always spot on and solid help.

i would very much like to take the most solid path with the least hiccups.

so - - assuming i want to backup my windows 7 boot camp installation which i will use for production work while on deadlines - are there good options?

or do i need to rely on running the windows 7 BACKUP and RESTORE option (which appears to let me place this anywhere i want) /and/ also get the disk my tech guy burned so i can do a full boot camp installation from this disk and then restore windows 7 using the Win 7 restore option (not sure if i need to install win 7 fresh in this method and /then/ restore my last functioning windows operating environment)...

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Answer 3

Csound1

Level 9

59,973 points

Nov 21, 2012 8:29 AM in response to hotwheels22

CCC can do a full disk Block level backup which will (of course) include the Boot Camp partition, it is however slow, CopyCatX also can do a block level backup, I have never used it but another regular poster does and recommends it.

Difficulty in obtaining a simple and reliable backup method for Windows is the reason I only run it in a VM. (But I try to avoid Windows whenever feasible to)

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Answer 4

hotwheels22 Author

Level 1

74 points

Nov 21, 2012 9:59 AM in response to Csound1

ok. thanks a ton. sorry for the multiple questions but it is a bit beyond my level of expertise here.

so is this CCC "block level" backup something much different from what i am doing now with my clones? i mean, does this block level give me something more than what i am doing now?

CCC documentation seems to explicitly state that you cannot do bootable clones and can only back up data but - well i guess i am not sure what this really means. i guess this means that if i am storing DATA (i am not) on the windows side then i am backing up the data with CCC but if i am trying to get something that i want to restore my OS with i am obviously not getting this with CCC?

http://help.bombich.com/kb/troubleshooting/can-ccc-back-up-my-bootcamp-windows-p artition

his h

also, CCC has been very helpful (in addition to having great software) and mike seems to have indicated that i can backup the windows side but my brain is getting a bit scrambled with all of this.

i mean, if have a 1 TB drive with Mac OS and VBox and then there is a 200 GB partition on this drive that contains win 7 in boot camp - I /could/ partition my external HD with a 200 GB Fat32 partition and then - well i guess i could run some kind of backup WHILE IN WINDOWS - arg - i guess i have to ask CCC about this again but i thought there was some way to partition the drive.

OR CAN YOU just tell if there are TWO DIFFERENT ways to do this? one using WinClone or CopyCatX which means i can do one backup to an external one time machine backup which includes the Boot Camp OR that i can partition an external drive and backup the Boot Camp somehow onto the partition so it is a full clone...?

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Answer 5

Csound1

Level 9

59,973 points

Nov 21, 2012 10:10 AM in response to hotwheels22

The only issue here is the Boot Camp partition, everything else (inc VM's) can be backed up by any normal OSX method. The Boot Camp partition is Windows and needs to be backed up using Windows tools (Google Windows Backup) and see the many options.

VM's do not need or create their own partition,

If you only use VM's instead of BootCamp TM or CCC or SuperDuper (or any other OSX backup) will back the VM's up as well. You can also save 'snapshots' of the Windows installation within the VM software.

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Answer 6

hotwheels22 Author

Level 1

74 points

Nov 21, 2012 10:17 AM in response to Csound1

ok, yeah. i have to check into snapshots. i guess this is a virtual software thing or was this a windows thing that is part of the "backup and restore" functionality?

also, for some reason i am having a hard time understanding if i am backing up boot camp from /within/ windows 7 boot camp (like i boot into boot camp and run the backup procedure using - well not sure what i am using - and this gets written to a partition on a drive that is plugged into my mac pro) or if i am actually running something WHILE IN mac os and then /this/ gets written to a partition on that is plugged into my Mac pro.

and then i guess this partition is formatted fat32?

i mean, WinClone and CopyCatX run in MAC OS and then they write the boot camp TO a Fat32 partition?? you know what i mean? it is sort of confusing this boot camp backup question...

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Answer 7

Csound1

Level 9

59,973 points

Nov 21, 2012 10:21 AM in response to hotwheels22

It's not confusing, Boot Camp is Windows, use Windows tools to back it up, VM's are Mac programs and should be backed up with Mac tools.

Why are you using Boot Camp, games?

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Answer 8

dalstott

Level 4

2,639 points

Nov 21, 2012 11:07 AM in response to hotwheels22

hotwheels 22,

Below are a bunch of comments that have been posted on this community over the past few years regarding Boot Camp backup. I collected them to keep informed of what may work and what may not work. Winclone has been updated since. Hopefully you can find some answers.

WinClone was handy for XP users but doesn't for instance check for errors during the backup only during restore. Winclone was discontinued at 2.2, all 2.3 versions are hacks (removal of the OS check seems to be the main thing) There has been no deveoplment or support for a while now.

Acronis 2011 w/ plus pak, didn't work well previously

Ghost 15 - probably not

Casper 6 works for Windows on Boot Camp only

CopyCatX is more lengthy and sector copy so takes the longest.

Paragon Hard Drive Suite 2011 because it works great and they have CampTune

Windows 7 system backup and restore - Apple's goofy HFS read-only interferes with system and file backup.

I have also used Casper, Clonezilla and Paragon but less regularly, Casper failed a few times, I stopped using it, Clonezilla worked but took forever (for me) Paragon (which I have only used twice) was the best but my sample is limited.

I have restored from DU, CCC, SuperDuper and TM, they all worked, TM was slower but not a lot, you can boot from the others, which I prefer.

HDM 2011 can do either offline or online backups, the difference is that with an offline backup, the entire partition (or disk) is unallocated. In an online backup, the backup utility is running against a partition that may be making changes to itself. When you run CCC or SD! in OS X, you're running an online backup. However, I would recommend (at least for the first backup) that you boot from the HDM recovery CD to do an offline backup. This will ensure that you have an *exact* copy of the parition/disk.

I tried the native Windows backup utility. It worked to backup and restore my Windows partition, but I noticed a "bad" side effect. When I would restore a Windows Backup to my HD, it would corrupt my MacOS boot partition, so I would then have to restore the Mac partition as well.

I created a test Windows 7 x64 Bootcamp partition (not whole dedicated HD) in my Mac Pro running 10.7.2. and made a Winclone image of it. Then I tried restoring it in three different scenarios:

1. Restored it straight back to the partition I had imaged it from.

2. Wiped the hard drive the original had been on, recreated the Bootcamp partition with Boot Camp Assistant, and restored it to that.

3. Restored to a Bootcamp partition on a completely different hard drive.

All three restores have been completely succesfull.

The link is http://bubba.org/winclone/

Make sure to turn off NTFS for Mac driver before imaging, if you have it installed.

Winclone allows you to migrate your Bootcamp partition from one Mac to another Mac and make sure Windows will boot. However, if the processor (for example, Core Duo or i7) is a different type, the restored version of Windows may not be supported or be able to run on the new Mac. If you are migrating between Macs that are the same type (MacBook Air to MacBook Air, for example), you will have the greatest chance of success. You can try to restore Winclone images between different types of Macs (for example, a Mac Pro to a Mac Mini), but be aware that if Windows boots but does not reach the desktop, it is probably not an issue with Winclone, but rather the change in processor type.

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Answer 9

hotwheels22 Author

Level 1

74 points

Nov 21, 2012 12:42 PM in response to dalstott

ooo-oooh. nice resources.

thanks a ton.

i see i have a bit of studying here to get this nailed down. in the meantime i am going to get the rest of my setup finalized.

do you mind if i follow up with a question or two if and when i get one?

THANKS

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Answer 10

hotwheels22 Author

Level 1

74 points

Nov 21, 2012 12:44 PM in response to dalstott

also. just to be clear the link is supposed to go to the winclone site yes?

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Answer 11

hotwheels22 Author

Level 1

74 points

Nov 21, 2012 12:57 PM in response to dalstott

does this mean that i cannot use the win 7 backup procedure while in a boot camp install of win 7 but CAN use it while in a virtual machine install (such as Virtual Box)?

Windows 7 system backup and restore - Apple's goofy HFS read-only interferes with system and file backup.

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Answer 12

Csound1

Level 9

59,973 points

Nov 21, 2012 1:11 PM in response to hotwheels22

I have not experienced that problem with Windows on Boot Camp, if true it does mean don't use Windows backup, but I don't know whether it is true, or not

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Answer 13

hotwheels22 Author

Level 1

74 points

Nov 21, 2012 4:58 PM in response to Csound1

thanks so much man.

regards.

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Answer 14

Csound1

Level 9

59,973 points

Nov 21, 2012 5:04 PM in response to hotwheels22

You're welcome 🙂

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Answer 15

rscheil

Level 1

21 points

Nov 22, 2012 4:41 AM in response to Csound1

Winclone 3 (not Winclone 2 which is what you are talking about) does indeed create snapshot images of the Boot Camp partition. It is a current commercial product, maintained, updated and supported. Winclone 2 has not been maintained and should not be expected to work with the newer versions of OSX but it seems to float around the net like a ghost. There are several articles on imaging and restoring Boot Camp at http://twocanoes.com/winclone.

Russell Scheil

Twocanoes Software, Inc.

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