Extending wireless network many times – works with limitations (why?)

Question

Extending wireless network many times – works with limitations (why?)

Hi all! I want to extend wireless network in big 2 floor house without ethernet cables. My current setup is attached in picture file.

Time Capsule – connected directly to Internet.

TimeCaps-Front – this is AirPort Express configured to extend network from Time Capsule.

TimeCaps-Back – this is AirPort Express configured to Bridge mode (it accepts local network via ethernet cable plugged to its WAN) and this AirPort creates new network with the same name and password as Time Capsule do.

2nd-floor-main – this is AirPort Express configured to extend the network from TimeCaps-Back (NOT from Time Capsule because 2nd extension doesn't work).

This setup is WORKS (unbelievable)!!!

But when Time Capsule is rebooted, any client can't connect to any base station, even to Time Capsule (error - connection timed out). For this solution work, it needed to reboot each device individually each after previous… Also I noticed, if after Time Capsule reboot, turn off "TimeCaps-Back" we can again connect our wireless clients to Time Capsule.

So the question is – how to optimize (if possible) this setup?

Posted on Nov 28, 2012 3:12 AM

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Answer 1

Nov 28, 2012 5:56 AM in response to andrey_kaplunenko

It sounds a bit corny to say that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, but it remains a valid concept. In your case, the weakest link is the wireless connection between the Time Capsule and AirPort Express.

The reason for this is that an extending device can only extend the quality of signal or bandwidth that it receives. So, the stronger the connection at this point in the network, the better the whole network will perform in terms of speed and stabiity. At least half of your entire network depends on a single wireless connection between the Time Capsule and the AirPort Express.

If things are working fine, there may be no need to check further. If you want to be a bit more scientific, then you can use a good utility like WiFi Explorer to examine the Signal to Noise (SNR) at various points on the network.

In that regard, I would first measure the SNR of the Time Capsule signal at the location of the first Express to make sure that it was acceptable and even experiment if possible by moving the Express closer to the Time Caspule or minimimizing any obstructions that might be limiting the SNR at this point.

The wireless connection between the Time Capsule and AirPort Express supports the other half of the entire network, so any weakness at this link in terms of bandwidth will be passed down to the other devices on the network.

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Answer 2

Nov 28, 2012 12:45 PM in response to Bob Timmons

Thank you for reply,

but first AirPort Express is in the line of sight with Time Capsule, so this connection is very OK.

And the network is works reasonably (not very fast but usable). The problem appears only after reboot Time Capsule without rebooting other APs. I continue to investigate this and I think I'll post tomorrow a new solution.

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Answer 3

Nov 28, 2012 1:12 PM in response to andrey_kaplunenko

The problem appears only after reboot Time Capsule without rebooting other APs.

The Time Capsule and other access points are always communicating with each other. You need to think of them as one "unit".

If you power off one Airport device, you must power off all AirPort devices.

Then, power up the Time Capsule first, and let it run a minute.

Power up the next access point and wait a minute

Then, power up the next. etc.

No way around this that in know of.

If you do find a way, please let us know.

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Answer 4

Dec 3, 2012 6:19 AM in response to Bob Timmons

As I understood, the problem in "TimeCaps-Back", according to my scheme (see 1st post). This base station creates new wifi network and does bridge. When main base station turns off and on or reboot, mobile devices by some reason (don't know why) can't connect. If you turn off the "bridge" station, all works fine.

So I decided don't use bridge, but use only standard "wifi extension" mechanism which Apple offer.

Because extension by air doesn't work for network that already extended by air, I decided to use ethernet-to-powerline adapters (TP-Link TL-PA511 KIT). This is the only workable solution for extension networks.

I have tried a lot of settings, tried to assign fixed IP addresses to base station, but was not able to extend wireless network wirelessly. So ethernet-to-powerline adapters appears as only working method.

Attached photo just for fun: this is "new device" - wifi-to-powerline adapter 🙂

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Answer 5

Dec 8, 2012 2:24 PM in response to Bob Timmons

UPDATE!

After some days of testing I can say that this solution also doesn't work! The problem is the same – after main router reboot, all network die.

Is this really true that Bob Timmons said – we need to reboot all routers manually in specified order?

Bob Timmons wrote:

If you power off one Airport device, you must power off all AirPort devices.

Then, power up the Time Capsule first, and let it run a minute.

Power up the next access point and wait a minute

Then, power up the next. etc.

So, Apple routers good only for small houses? It seems I can't built really reliable big wifi network on AirPorts...

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Answer 6

Dec 8, 2012 2:44 PM in response to andrey_kaplunenko

I connect all of my routers using a wired Ethernet connection.

If you are trying to use wireless to communicate between routers, then the routers need to be located so that they can pick up a good wireless signal.

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Answer 7

Dec 16, 2012 10:02 AM in response to andrey_kaplunenko

I have bought 3x Cisco RV-110W, and they work. WDS works fine but only in WEP security mode (I don't know why...). What good – these 3 base stations can be rebooted in any order. Good system. This is not about Apple, but this solved my problem, so I decided post here.

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Answer 8

John Galt

Level 10

141,162 points

Dec 16, 2012 10:59 AM in response to andrey_kaplunenko

A WDS is a completely different system with significant inherent limitations. A three base station WDS will reduce your entire wireless network's bandwidth to approximately 10% of its potential capacity.

No industry standard exists for WDS so standard encryption modes may work, or they may not. Also, WEP is nearly useless as an encryption protocol. WEP will dissuade only the most casual attackers.

The AirPort network you proposed is not a recommended configuration for the reasons you discovered. All large wireless deployments rely upon individually wired access points, and "large" is impossible to quantify due to the variables associated with wireless networking.

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