14 Replies Latest reply: Dec 6, 2012 2:21 PM by fireworks368
fireworks368 Level 1 (0 points)

Hi, I recently bought a used iMac G5 17 inch 1.8Ghz 2004 model and it was working fine until I updated from 10.4 to 10.4.11 in order to update iTunes and get a decent browser. It freezes either immediately upon startup or within 2 minutes and I have to power off by pressing and holding the power button for 5 seconds. I thought something had gone wrong so I zeroed out and wiped the hard disk and reinstalled 10.4. After I applied the 10.4.11 update, The same thing happened with the freezing etc. My friend told me it could be a bad sector on the hard drive so I bought a new one and while I was at it, I upgraded the ram up to 1GB. I also had it checked for bad caps and found none. When performing the 10.4.11 update, same thing. The iMac runs fine in 10.4 so I see no reason why it doesn't after the update. Does anyone have any idea about whats going on? Thanks

iMac, Mac OS X (10.4.11)
  • Rambling Joe Level 2 (280 points)

    You can try this:


    Restart off of your 10.4 install disc.  Don't do a new install, but under the Utilities menu at the top of the screen select Disk Utility.  Select your hard drive from the left column, click First Aid,  then click Repair Disk.  When that is done Repair Perrmissions. 


    Good luck.

  • fireworks368 Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks for your response but unfortunately your solution did not work. I Repaired the disk and it said that no repairs were necessary but when I clicked repair permissions, lots of repairs were necessary. I restarted the computer and it seemed froze like usual; mouse becomes sluggish and then stops responding, Fans build up like a jet engine, then I force power off. Thanks for your help

  • Rambling Joe Level 2 (280 points)

    Here are a couple of other possible fixes to try:


    Reset the SMC by removing all cables (USB, Firewire, Ethernet, Modem, Power cord) from the back of your computer.  Let it sit for one minute.  Press and hold the power on button on the back of the iMac while plugging in the power cord.  Release the power on button.  Count to five, the press the power on button again.


    If that doesn't work:


    Reset your PRAM.  Press and hold down the Command Option P R keys while starting your computer.  You will hear the startup chime.  continue holding down those keys until you hear the startup chime a second time.  Release the keys.  If the computer restarts, you will need to reset your Date and Time.  It might be time to replace your PRAM battery.  The G5 iMacs require a 3 volt CR2032 lithium watch/camera battery like below:




    You can find these batteries at Walmart, Kmart, Target, most local drugstore chains, for between $3-$5, or at Radio Shack for $12-$20.


    Good luck.

  • fireworks368 Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks again but no luck. I tried both and they seemed to have no effect whatsoever. The machine was refurbished when I bought it and had just had a new battery fitted. (I think it was called CMOS battery) I have tried the "Wipe Disk, Reinstall 10.4, Update to 10.4.11" about six times now. I think it must be a software problem as I have replaced most of the parts of the machine. New hard drive, ram, cmos battery. Any other thoughts? Thanks for your support.

  • Klaus1 Level 8 (47,745 points)

    General advice on updating Tiger:


    It is worth noting that it is an extreme rarity for updates to cause upsets to your system, as they have all been extensively beta-tested, but they may well reveal pre-existing ones, particularly those of which you may have been unaware. If you are actually aware of any glitches, make sure they are fixed before proceeding further.


    So before you do anything else:


    If you can, make a full backup first to an external hard disk. Ideally you should always have a bootable clone of your system that enables you to revert to the previous pre-update state.


    Turn off sleep mode for both screen and hard disk.


    Disconnect all peripherals except your keyboard and mouse.


    1. Repair Permissions (in Disk Utility)


    2. Verify the state of your hard disk using Disk Utility. If any faults are reported, restart from your install disk (holding down the C key), go to Disk Utility, and repair your startup disk. Restart again to get back to your startup disk.


    At least you can now be reasonably certain that your system does not contain any obvious faults that might cause an update/upgrade to fail.


    3. Download the correct version of the COMBO update from the Apple download site. If your car runs on gasoline you would not want to fill the tank with diesel, so don’t try to install the PPC updater on an Intel Mac!


    The 10.4.11 Combo Updater for PPC Macs is here:  http://support.apple.com/kb/DL170


    And for Intel Macs here:  http://support.apple.com/kb/DL172


    If you prefer to download updates via Software Update in the Apple menu (which would ensure that the correct version for your Mac was being downloaded), it is not recommended to allow SU to install major (or even minor) updates automatically. Set Software Update to just download the updater without immediately installing it. There is always the possibility that the combined download and install (which can be a lengthy process) might be interrupted by a power outage or your cat walking across the keyboard, and an interrupted install will almost certainly cause havoc. Once it is downloaded, you can install at a time that suits you. You should make a backup copy of the updater on a CD in case you ever need a reinstall.


    Full details about the 10.4.11 update here:  http://support.apple.com/kb/TA24901?viewlocale=en_US


    More information on using Software Updater here:




    Using the Combo updater ensures that all system files changed since the original 10.4.0 are included, and any that may have been missed out or subsequently damaged will be repaired. The Delta updater, although a temptingly smaller download, only takes you from the previous version to the new one, i.e. for example from 10.4.10 to 10.4.11. Software Update will generally download the Delta updater only. The preferable Combo updater needs to be downloaded from Apple's download site.


    Now proceed as follows:


    4. Close all applications and turn off energy saving and screensaver.


    5. Unplug all peripherals except your keyboard and mouse.


    6. Install the update/upgrade. Do not under any circumstances interrupt this procedure. Do not do anything else on your computer while it is installing. Be patient.


    7. When it ask for a restart to complete the installation, click restart. This can take longer than normal, there are probably thousands of files to overwrite and place in the correct location. Do nothing while this is going on.


    8. Once your Mac is awake, repair permissions again, and you should be good to go!


    If your Mac seems slightly sluggish or ‘different’, perform a second restart. It can’t hurt and is sometimes efficacious!


    9. Open a few of your most used applications and check that all is OK. In this connection please remember that not all manufacturers of third party applications and plug-ins, add-ons, haxies etc, will have had time to do any necessary rewrites to their software to make them compliant with the latest version of your operating system. Give them a weeks or two while you regularly check their websites for updates. This applies particularly to plug-ins for Safari 3.


    N.B. Do not attempt to install two different updates at the same time as each may have different routines and requirements. Follow the above recommendations for each update in turn.


    Lastly, Apple's own article on the subject of Software Update may also be useful reading:




    [b]If you are updating Safari (or just have):[/b]


    Input Managers from third parties can do as much harm as good. They use a security loophole to reach right into your applications' code and change that code as the application starts up.  If you have installed an OS update and Safari is crashing, the very [i]first[/i] thing to do is clear out your InputManagers folders (both in your own Library and in the top-level /Library), log out and log back in, and try again.

    So, disable all third party add-ons before updating Safari, as they may not have been updated yet for the new version. Add them back one by one. If something goes awry, remove it again and check on the software manufacturer's website for news of an update to match your version of Safari. Remember: Tiger up to 10.4.10 used Safari 2.0.4 or, if you downloaded it, Safari 3.0.3 beta. Safari 10.4.11 used Safari 3.0.4 which was [i]not[/i] a beta. If Safari 3.1.2 on 10.4.11 is not the fastest browser you have ever used, then something is wrong!


    Moreover, trying to revert to Safari 3.0.4 (or worse still, version 2) when running 10.4.11 or 10.5 can have repercussions, as Safari 3.1.1 uses a completely different webkit on which other applications like iChat, Mail and Dashboard Widgets etc also rely, and may entail you having to reinstall an earlier operating system.


    [b][i]Most errors reported here after an update are due to an unrepaired or undetected inherent fault in the system, and/or a third party ad-on.[/b][/i] Two such add-on that have been frequently mentioned here for causing such problems are Piclens and Pithhelmet. If you have them, trash them.


    Additional tips on software installation here:




    To reiterate, Input Managers reach right into an application and alter its code. This puts the behavior of the affected application outside the control and responsibility of its developers: a recipe for  problems. That's not to say that issues absolutely will ensue as a result of Input Managers, but you, as a user, must decide. If the functionality of a specific Input Manager or set thereof is really important to you, you may well choose to assume the associated risk.

    Again, the advice is to remove all Input Managers from the following directories:

    • /Library/InputManagers
    • ~/Library/InputManagers

    especially prior to system updates (they can always be added back one-by-one later).

  • fireworks368 Level 1 (0 points)

    THanks Klaus1 for your help but I have tried all of those methods including:

    Update through Software Update,

    Downloading Combo 10.4.11 onto iMac and running from there

    Downloading 10.4.11 onto USB from another computer and running off that

    Update in what I think was safe mode

    Trying every possible combination of disk permissions repair.


    They all end in the same: Boots correctly- about 30 seconds after launching desktop, mouse gets sluggish- mouse stops responding- programs stop playing video, music etc.- Fans run at full speed until force power off. Anything else you can think of? I appreciate your help

  • Rambling Joe Level 2 (280 points)

    Since you've updated, and re-installed so many times, let's look for hardware conflicts.


    Do you have anything plugged into you iMac, a printer, a USB hub, a FireWire device?  Are you using the iMac's original keyboard and mouse, or are they newer Apple or third-party replacements?  Are they wired or Bluetooth?


    You upgraded the RAM, is it seated properly?  You upgraded the Hard Drive, are the connections tight? 


    Good luck.

  • fireworks368 Level 1 (0 points)

    The only devices that I have connected to the iMac are a generic wired USB keyboard and mouse and the computer still freezes and runs fans when I boot without them plugged in. The RAM is correctly seated and matched to the computer and the sata connections are tight for the hard drive. However, there is no hard drive bracket so the hard drive is kind of loose in the back. It doesn't rattle at all and is kept in place with sticky back foam so I don't think this would be the problem. Thanks for your continued help, really hope I get this sorted.

  • Rambling Joe Level 2 (280 points)

    Just another thought.


    Did you try plugging the keyboard and mouse into a different USB port on your iMac?  Perhaps one of the ports is going bad.


    Good luck.

  • fireworks368 Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks, but I have tried every combination of USB ports and USB hubs and powered hubs and dont seem to be getting anywhere. The only other thing I have pluggedinto the iMac is the power cord. It is not the original apple power cord but just a standard kettle lead. Could this be causing the problems?

  • Rambling Joe Level 2 (280 points)

    I haven't given up on your problem, just trying to come up with new suggestions.


    You say you have a generic mouse.  Is it a two button mouse?  If so, immediately aftyer startup, open System Preferences, Keyboard & Mouse, Mouse and additional items, and see what settings are available.  I don't use a two button mouse, but I beleive there are additional settings in this pane for them.  Maybe something needs set here.


    Try determining what brand of mouse you have, and the model.  Maybe there is a driver update needed for OS 10.4.11 that wasn't necessary for OS 10.4.x..


    Other than that, the only thing I can come up with is a Preference or Extension conflict. 


    Do you have the OS 10.3.5 Install disks that came with the iMac when it was new?  If so, have you tried installing OS 10.3.5, the installing OS 10.4, then upgrading to 10.4.11?  Not sure this would help, but maybe something from your original disk is missing????


    Just more food for thought.


    Good luck.

  • fireworks368 Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks, you have been really helpful . I will try this when I get back from work but I don't have the original install disk, just the 10.4. This problem is really confusing me, I didn't think it was a hardware problem as it ran fine before but since I have reinstalled so many times I see it is probably not software. Really strange.

  • fireworks368 Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks for both of your help, especially Rambling Joe. Unfortunately, I was unable to sort the problem and have booked a mac specialist to look at it later this week. I seriously have no clue as to what it might be but I will keep you posted on what the actual problem turns out to be. If it turns out to cost more than £100 to fix then I think I might give up as it only cost me £40 to buy. Ah well, here's hoping that it is something simple. Once again thanks for your suggestions.

  • fireworks368 Level 1 (0 points)

    Awesome, thanks Rambling Joe!, you were spot on with the driver issue. The 3 mouses that I own (all generic) seem to have driver issues. The Mac guy plugged in his logitech mouse and all was fine. Feel like such an idiot now . Only cost me £30 for the appointment and he gave me the mouse. Just goes to show, try the easy solutions before replacing every major component in your computer