Old G3

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Old G3

I have an old power mac g3 I purachased brand new. I'm in advertising and everyone in the business raved about macs. I used IBM's with Corel and found them at that time as adequate as the macs and Corel better and more advanced than Adobe illustrator for graphics. I finally got a mac...a G3. I had nothing but problems with it. It kept freezing up, something they all told me macs never did. I called support and they told me to add memory, when that didn't work, they told me to upgrade to a new operationg system. What they didn't tell me when I upgraded the OS is I had to buy all new programs as they were not compatible with the new OS. That too did not solve the problem and the thing kept on freezing. Apple support was not of any help and I finally gave up and went back to my PC. In my view, it was the worst investment I ever made in my years in business. Years later, I still have the thing sitting here, it looks pretty, it works and as usual it keeps freezing within a few minutes of operation. Someone told me it may the SCSI hard drive. I want to get this thing out of my office and use it a home. Any suggestion as to what is causing it to freeze?

Posted on Jan 8, 2013 2:06 PM

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Answer 1

BDAqua

Level 10

250,253 points

Jan 8, 2013 2:42 PM in response to vlad747

Hi Vlad,

One common problem on the G3s was that many came with marginal RAM, have you replaced the original OEM RAM.

My 1st G3 came with a bad RAM stick, took me 6 months to figure that out & the 90 day warranty was gone, took me another 6 months to find out the Hard Drive was bad, after those two things were fixed it was rock solid.

What OS is it running?

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Answer 2

vlad747 Author

Level 1

0 points

Jan 8, 2013 3:52 PM in response to BDAqua

I suppose I can remove the original OEM RAM and leave the stick I added. As for the hard drive, I will have to see were I can get one. Doesn't say much for Apple product quality and support in those days. I will let you know how I progress.

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Answer 3

MichelPM

Level 10

81,535 points

Jan 8, 2013 3:58 PM in response to BDAqua

Yeah, BD,

I remember having problems with the original RAM that came with my G3 as it hadn't been working properly initially after I purchased it in 1997. Had to take it to my local Apple seller to have then diagnose the problem as I had bought my G3 through a Mac mail order company and didn't want to return it. They found it was a bad RAM stick and had paid to replaced it with a new stick and add an additonal stick of RAM ( I didn't know anything about Macs yet at that time).

The Poster mentioned the hard drive was an SCSI drive.

Weren't the G3 internal HDs IDE drives and not SCSI?

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Answer 4

MichelPM

Level 10

81,535 points

Jan 8, 2013 4:31 PM in response to vlad747

Welcome Vlad,

What model of G3 is this?

Is it a flat, desktop model, tower style, or all-in-one model.

What is the CPU speed?

Will help to better advise you.

The HD could be bad, but may not be likely.

Another thing, if this Mac has been out of service for awhile, there is a half-height AA battery called a PRAM battery that will probably need to be replaced.

These batteries only last 5-7 years or so before going bad.

Do not know your location, but these batteries can be purchased online cheaply here

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Newer%20Technology/BAA36VPRAM/

G3 models can take a total of 768 MBs of RAM.

If you can still find the type of RAM, they can take (3) 256 MB PC-66, 100 or 133

3.3v, unbuffered, 8-byte, x64 non-parity 168-pin SDRAM (Low Profile)

Here is the same source for RAM

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/100SD256168/

You can also increase the stock 2 MBs of video RAM to the max of 6 MBs with this card.

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/G3VRAM4/

It is too bad that your Mac experienced was soured with the difficulties you were having.

Were there any Apple service centers you could have brought your Mac to at that time to diagnose and repair your issues?

Once I got past the RAM problem, my beige G3 ran flawlessly for over 6 years. I constantly upgraded it over that time and has a 1 Ghz G4 chip installed with various USB/FireWire and SCSI PCI cards and upgraded 128 VRAM video card.

I lent it out to a friend to use only a couple of years, ago. My friend used it for another year or so before my friend got a Mac Mini in 2009-2010

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Answer 5

vlad747 Author

Level 1

0 points

Jan 9, 2013 3:03 PM in response to MichelPM

Heelo Michel,

The model is the beige and blue one. I turned the thing on today and the date was current, so I'm assuming the battery still works. I will get new RAM and see if that solves the issue. OS is 9.2. I did go to OS X and then purchased OS Jaguar (how stupid of me) but found I had to buy all new programs to work with Jaguar so I never ventured in that direction seeing I had a bum computer to begin with. Apple support talked me back to OS 9.2 to see if the thing would be more stable, it wasn't and I eventually gave up (had to keep the business going). There probably were Apple support centers here, but I got the thing through the mail and wasn't familiar with procedures. You would think Apple support would have told me to take it to their local service center. They weren't much help at all. Thanks for your advice.

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Answer 6

MichelPM

Level 10

81,535 points

Jan 9, 2013 8:24 PM in response to vlad747

Hi, Vlad,

The model PowerMac you have is referred to as PowerMac G3 Blue and White model.

This model can actually take up to 1 GB of RAM.

What speed is the CPU?

In order to run OS X on this Mac, you need to find and run a special Internal ROM firmware update software in OS 9 to update your Mac's ROM firmware.

The update you need is called PM G3 (Blue and White) Firmware Update 1.1

I don't even know if this is still available as a download from Apple's web site any longer

What are your plans for this Mac?

As stock, in this day and age, this Mac is going to be a very poor performer on the Internet with OS 9.

The programs you already have loaded are out of date and there were changes to make OS 9 programs that were modified to run under OS X, but these updates may not be available any longer.

Tthe highest OS X version you can run of this Mac is OS X 10.4 Tiger.

Finding original retail discs for this version of OS X is going to be hard to find and expensive.

The cost of the OS X discs you need to bring this Mac to a more usable machine will Probbaly cost more than this Mac is worth. OS X 10.4 Tiger is over 6 years old and will be hard to obtain.

Plus, to get this Mac to a usable state for today's computing and Internet use may not be worth it either. Some upgrades now are more expensive than your Mac is worth, now, too!

There were CPU ZIF upgrade cards that could bring your Mac to a 1 Ghz G3 CPU speed and Mac video PCI upgrade cards and various PCI USB 2.0 and FireWire cards.

The PCI USB and FireWire cards can still be found here

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/usb/pci-pcmcia/

Here's a compatible PCI video card upgrade for your G3

http://www.amazon.com/ATI-Radeon-Edition-Video-100-436011/dp/B0002F8MJY/ref=sr_1 _4?ie=UTF8&qid=1357790769&sr=8-4&keywords=ATI+Mac+edition+video+cards

You may need to search eBay for the CPU ZIF upgrade cards as these are not available from the manufacturers any longer. These could be more expensive than your B & W Mac is worth!

If you are planning to use this computer for anything productive, you are going to be better off looking for a Mac that is newer and more modern as these G3 models were discontinued in 2000.

Apple is using Intel technology now and has long since abandoned the Motorola PowerPC CPU/logic board architecture. It is obsolete technology, now.

If you hadn't abandoned this Mac for so long, you might have been able to both ressurect and upgrade this Mac as many upgrades has still been available for this Mac up until perhaps 5 years, ago.

These support forums have been here for a long time and could've been a help to you long, long ago.

Apple is in much better shape, now.

You might consider a much newer used Mac that's a 2007 model or later depending on how much you are willing to spend on a used Mac.

It would make for a better Apple/Mac experience for you by using more recent Apple technology.

Good Luck on whatever direction you decide.

Michel

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Answer 7

Jeff

Level 6

12,316 points

Jan 9, 2013 10:06 PM in response to vlad747

"...it works and as usual it keeps freezing within a few minutes of operation."

Since this repeatedly occurs "within a few minutes of operation," the freezing could be caused by an overheating/defective CPU or a hard drive that hangs when attempting to retrieve data. I have a couple of B&W G3s (400 MHz & 450 MHz) and still use them with an older photo editing program, as well as other pre-OS X programs. To troubleshoot and replace defective components on a 13 year-old computer at this time, would be combined time and money poorly spent. Whatever amount of $$ invested in it today, would never be recovered if you sold it a day later. I'm sure that the cause of the freezing could be determined, and even if you replaced the motherboard/processor with a used one purchased at eBay, you'd still have a technologically outdated piece of hardware. Unless you have a sentimental attachment to it (which doesn't seem to be the case), you might be better off trying to sell it "as-is" locally, so that a potential buyer doesn't have to pay shipping expenses that would exceed its value.

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Answer 8

Jan 9, 2013 11:20 PM in response to vlad747

V,

Unfortunately, you were most likely an early adopter. The first version of any computer model is often driven to release sooner than ready by the marketing department. The platinum G3s were great machines. Then market surveys said that consumers wanted wanted cheap IBM compatible parts. The Blue and White was the first truely PC component compatible Mac produced. It had the first built-in USB keyboard but it also had an Apple ADB keyboard port for those who had older keyboards and wanted to use keyboard commands before the USB software loaded. In all, the B&W was a compromise machine that was market driven and not one for the all-star history books.

Even worse than the B&W was the first G4 in the B&W case. It was called the Yikes. Visit MacGurus for more on that story. Their website still has the best motherboard illustrations and descriptions.

http://www.macgurus.com/products/motherboards/mbppcg3bw.php

Do your self a favor and buy a grey and white G4, the newer the better, mirror door if you can find one and load OS 10.4.xxx They can be found at recyclers for $25 and still serve us well on the internet. Not something you can say for any G3. The parts, pieces, cards etc for the G3 will carry forward to most of the G4 towers.

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Answer 9

MichelPM

Level 10

81,535 points

Jan 10, 2013 7:23 AM in response to Appaloosa mac man

If the OP wants to try and use a Mac again, why a PowerMac and why a G4?? Why not have the OP look to the last of PowerPC line with G5s? Last G4 was 2003. G5 PowerMacs ended in 2006 and are much faster.

The only drawback with the PPC G5 models are that I would stay away from any of the liquid cooled models as many of the liquid cooling systems leaked or failed over time and caused those G5 models to fail.

Since the OP had such a bad first time Apple experience, I am trying to get him to have a better experience today by having him use more modern and still supported Intel Macs.

Older Intel Mac Minis, iMacs or Mac Pros rather than new.

Plenty of older Intel Macs for sale either on eBay or from authorized Mac resellers.

😉

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Answer 10

vlad747 Author

Level 1

0 points

Jan 10, 2013 8:11 AM in response to MichelPM

With the bad experience I had with the G3, I do not want a mac to use for work I'm goint to play with it so I don't need a super fast one. Besides, when creating graphics the brain is not as fast as the computer so speed is not really essential. At the time, I was told how great they were, well, it turned out they were no better than the PC. The monitors had slightly better resolutions but that was it. Those in advertising who raved about the Mac, never used a PC. I used both and could see the difference (hardly any, in fact, the PC worked better than the G3). I met the first and former Apple marketing manager, he moved on to become Kodak's marketing manager. He started as an art director in an ad agency. When he got to Apple, he created the ad (if you remember) where people are sitting in a conference room and passing around reports. One exec is so impressed he says, what printer (or ad agency) created this? The guys answers, "I did it." it goes on to glorify the graphic capabilities of the mac, and the rest is history. That is how Macs got to be cornered in the graphics industry. Being intentionally overpriced, to give them an aura of value, the general public preferred or could only afford the PC. Ad agencies had money and because of the ad, figured they needed a Mac. At the time pagemaker was the only graphics program available and given the technology, Aldus, later Adobe rather than use the capabilities of the software, configured it to work as we did it by hand...as if you were doing electronic paste ups. I started with PC because Apple was overpriced and I used Corel, the only graphics program at the time for PC. Corel was forward thinking and really took advange of the technology and created seamless interaction between its graphic program and photo retouch program long before Adobe did. It aslo had print preview and print formating which did not exist in Adobe for a while. Users of Adobe at the time could not preview how the graphic would print. Anyway, I still use a PC, most up to date, and the G3 is just a toy now to thinker with. I have to admit, I was also seduced by the design of the thing, I consider it's design very progressive and unique even now...I love curves, especially in cars.

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Answer 11

MichelPM

Level 10

81,535 points

Jan 10, 2013 9:04 AM in response to vlad747

Well, Good Luck!

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Answer 12

Jan 11, 2013 4:52 PM in response to vlad747

You make a good point. The machine has to work for you, not the other way around. In 1985, I had a choice between a $2,500 Compugraphic typesetting bid or a Mac Plus for $2,500. Remember the desk top publishing craze? There was good reason for it.

I spent money on neither the compugraphic nor the Mac Plus. A friend bought the mac and I bought the software. I just paid him for data entry and printouts. My cost? $265 Filemaker from Nashoba and $40 for the laser prints at a dollar a page. The mac was not over priced to increase perceived value, it was hands down the most affordable way to get the job done. BTW, Pagemaker did not even exist at the time so they were no help.

People forget that some of us had ten to fifteen years of use of certain computer products before Bill Gates and his guys ever delivered a comparable product. What others forget is the money spent on IT and network management has to be added to the price of a PC. I saw one professional spend $1,000 on networking to share a $150 printer. Kind of had his priorities wrong. BTW, the PC network never worked as promised.

Apple builds the "support" costs into the original machine. After that you rarely need support. In 25 years, I have never paid an Apple tech for support. I got support online for free. If you want to 'play with a Mac,' name your budget and then play. I know you can get a G4 for $25. I do not know of any G5 computers in that price range yet. I spent $50 for an empty G5 case in Seattle a few years back. Play around all you want but some of us would never give up our ten year head start at any price.

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Answer 13

vlad747 Author

Level 1

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Jan 14, 2013 7:48 AM in response to Appaloosa mac man

I started on a compugraphic machine way back in the early seventies, The model I worked on used a spinning negative photo disk with code bars on the outside perimeter. The characters were selected by sensing the coded bars and imaged with a flash of light beamed on photo paper. You could only do stuff in galley form and once you were done, you processed the photo paper in developer and then pasted the stuff on your board to create a mechanical. You had to have a separate disk for every font, which proved to be very expensive, so you were limited in font selection.

When I got on my own, I used the computer mainly for writing copy (word processing), I could not afford an Apple and Pagemaker was at the time very primitive and useless as a professional graphics program unless you did office reports. Then I discovered Corel, the only professional graphics program made for the PC. The great thing was that it came with a training video and over 200 fonts. It was not long before you could see the demise of typesetting businesses. I asked fellow art directors if they had switched to computer graphics. one of them said are you kidding, that's not art. Exactly, I replied

In the early seventies also came digital image scanners. I mean the professional ones that only commercial printer could afford and they had the software capability to "photoshop" images. I know Kodak didn't realize it back then, but that was the advent of digital imaging. I though it was the greatest thing in the world to have a digital images in your computer that you could manipulate in many more ways than before. If you worked at an ad agency you know the only thing they could do back then was to air brush a photo and that was, depending on the detail, very expensive. So when the digital camera came around, I jumped at it. Despite the low resolution, I used the images as reference, importing them into my layout. Once the layout was approved, I would have a photographer take the pictures exactly as on the layout. While some were still showing layouts done by hand with color markers and the copy text on a separate sheet, I had the text and images on the layout as it would appear in the actual printed piece. The ad agencies eventually saw the light and stopped making layouts by hand. Unfortunately, Kodak (the king of imaging) not wanting to kill the goose that laid their golden egg, the film monopoly and not understanding or not wanting to understand the massive potential of digital imaging (until it was way too late), went bankrupt.

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Answer 14

Jan 22, 2013 7:24 PM in response to vlad747

Thanks for the background information. Today's generation has no concept of what it took to put together a magazine forty years ago.

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Answer 15

Jan 22, 2013 9:11 PM in response to vlad747

I have had 6 beige G3s and they all worked to perfection NEVER crashed. However, our school purchased all new computers in 1999. They were the Blue and White (Revision A and then Revision B) tower. There were problems with the first Blue and Whites. If you have one of the B&W, don't waste your time.

I took one of the B&Ws home with me and I played with it for months. Crash, crash, crash. The computer is just defective from the factory.

The next year we got a huge shipment of the G4 Sawtooth Gigibit eithernet towers. They were all rock solid and we kept them around for 10 years. Still a very good computer for the basics. I am using one (Although it is a MDD) right now with OS 10.5.8 to write this and streming an episode of Breaking Bad from iTunes to my HD TV at the same time. Pretty good for a 12 year old computer. I wonder how many 12 year old PCs can do this?

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