popping and clicking when recorded audio looped (cannot get delay settings correct)

Okay, this is driving me crazy. I'm getting pop/click on the first beat of my recorded kick drum (Akai MPC tracking out to Logic 9 Pro using M-Audio FastTrack Pro).


I've messed with with the "delay transmission by" setting in logic. This has helped for most all tracks recoding in. However, the kick drum is still having problems as the timing needs to perfect.



I took screens shots to explain...



Here you see I've tweaked the midi settings to start the recording right on time (if left it at "0" I can see a delay in recording the start of the kick drum)

User uploaded file



BUT, even though I timed the start perfectly (by messing with the delay setting) the tail end is cut off, and this (I believe) is why I get the click and popping when the track is looped. (the tail end of the last kick is cut-off). The BPMs are matched in logic and on the MPC.

User uploaded file



here is my delay setting currently

User uploaded file



Any advice? the BPMs are matched on the MPC and Logic and Logic and the MPC seem to be sync'd correctly. This minor timing issue is only really heard in things like the kick drum right before the beginning of the next bar. So, the samples and stuff sound okay (although everything is probably slightly off).

Logic Pro, Mac OS X (10.7)

Posted on Jan 13, 2013 8:02 AM

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8 replies

Jan 13, 2013 10:17 AM in response to AoyamaJPN

It doesn't matter that the BPM's are set the same on each device, will ve variations, unless you mean that the MPC is synced to Logic's external MIDI clock... even then, MIDI clock is very coarse compared to audio clock.


Have you set the MPC sync to incoming MIDI clock, it doesn't do it automatically it has to be set via the MPC.


What happens if you let the bass drum recording run for 30 seconds and pull the looped section from midway in the recording?

Jan 13, 2013 10:35 AM in response to Pancenter

I know this doesn't happen automagically. MPC is sync'd via "Midi Clock" only other option is "Midi Time Code" and I couldn't get that to sync right.


I tried letting it record through several bars and took a sampling from the middle. Same results.


Something is just a fraction of a second off in the timing. When I have a ghost kick right before the next bar, that fraction of a second in off timing makes it click/pop (this is my theory).


Basically, this is a midi timing issue (i think), but I don't know how to get it to where I need it. As shown above, I've already tweaked the delay a bit so that it starts exactly on the first kick.


Thanks!

Jan 13, 2013 1:53 PM in response to AoyamaJPN

First off... I attribute most of the odd timing issues Logic has to it's antiquated buffering system.


Things to check that can make a difference.


Make sure you're working with no plugins in Logic.


Oddly enough there are slight timing differences depending on the I/O buffer settings in Preferences/Audio try different ones, 64, 128, 256...etc.


Make sure Preferences/Audio "Recording Delay" is set to zero, if it is see...**


**If Recording Delay" was already set to zero set the "Delay Transmission" back to it's default and try using Recording Delay, both positive and negative numbers can be entered.


One other thing to try is let Logic play and the MPC lock up (without recording) then hit record after 15 seconds or so. This might produce a different result.


All said, I would cut the sample at bar 5 and do a quick fade to zero and see how the transition sounded.

Jan 13, 2013 5:52 PM in response to Pancenter

i am at my whits end...


i've spent the last 3 hours messing with all the settings, reading logic/mpc sync tutorials to no avail. that fraction of a second off-timing is ok for high hats, snares and samples, but any bass kick bars that need to be looped are popping.


for the time being, i'm just recording one long bass kick sample that's like 18 bars long then coping and pasting that. this is not effienct and also a major pain.


I've tried:


Every I/O Buffer Setting

Recording delay at 0

Different clock settings

Unchecking and checking about 10 various boxes in the Sync screen


Each time, I reset my delay settings to 0 and go from there. I did notice between setting 4 and 5 I could ALMOST get the bass kick sample to end in the right spot, but I can't use fractions, so I can't get it where I want. Not sure if this would help anyway.


Any other things I could try? Thanks so much! I hope I can figure this out!

Jan 13, 2013 6:31 PM in response to AoyamaJPN

AoyamaJPN wrote:


i am at my whits end...


Each time, I reset my delay settings to 0 and go from there. I did notice between setting 4 and 5 I could ALMOST get the bass kick sample to end in the right spot, but I can't use fractions, so I can't get it where I want. Not sure if this would help anyway.


Any other things I could try? Thanks so much! I hope I can figure this out!


MIDI timing in Logic, as it is in all MIDI/Audio sequencers... is taken from the audio clock. There is a chance the audio drivers are not reporting the correct position to Logic, if you had the right kind of cable you could test it by using the internal Mac audio and see if there was a difference. The "Recording Delay" slider is for adjusting drivers that don't report the correct position, if you're getting it close using between a 4 - 5 setting then that's as close as you're going to get it, the rest may be normal MIDI timing errors.


That said...

No matter how the Logic software (or any DAW) subdivides MIDI clock, to the hardware it's only 24 pulses per quarter note. Compare that resolution to an audio rate 44,100 samples per second. MIDI clock is not very accurate.

Jan 13, 2013 8:39 PM in response to Pancenter

I'm starting to think it may be something other than timing. I'm using the pen tool to edit the sound and leave plenty of room before and after the sample, I'm still getting the pop, but only for this bass kick drum.


i get that timing will never be perfect, but i cannot be the only one with this problem. and the alternative is recording the whole bass track for the entire song in one long file.


there's got to be something... is there any other reason it would be popping/clicking when looped?


thanks

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popping and clicking when recorded audio looped (cannot get delay settings correct)

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