Q: 2011 MacBook Pro and Discrete Graphics Card

" silly mistakes liek...none lead solder are made."

Well, Hans Kramer, Ph.D., the lead-free solder was used by international agreement and governmental legislation.

Ha die Hans,

That indeed sounded like a possible problem cause, but there are plenty MBPs that die completely. Meaning; a black screen only on boot, no more life in it, like ever..

With that th.paste theory, that would surely mean that the GPU would be damaged at least, otherwise an ice cold machine would at least not up a bit.

My machine was like I described up here (after seeing some strange graphic errors), but after a (good) reflow, it's working like a charm now. That doesn't add up to that article.

Of course, it's a very simple thing to clean the old paste off (not sure which fluid is best to use for that? Anyone? Alcohol?) and simply try it. Won't cost more then 5€ on paste and 1h labor..

It's at least worth a try, but I suspect it won't make a difference.

The guy that did the reflow on my machine did many and those nearly all got fixed by just that one reflow..

Ha die Kayazuki,

I think you are right, fixing the paste won't help anymore since I think the GPU has been too hot too many times and hence damaged the soldering...

Oh well, it is only a theory :-)

So what did a reflow cost in Belgium? I even heard ppl doing it themselves with a heatgun by hand, but that is crazy!!!!

Hans

Well, I think it is still a mistake (perhaps not of Apple) to deny companies to use lead solder and thereby make more durable systems.

1) Countries should have a proper recycling policy

2) This way we make products that last shorter (like the whole Mickeysoft bogus economy) which only has a higher impact on the environment.

We should make systems that least at least 10 years. I used a HP Vectra for 10 years running Linux, and with a cheap graphics card update

I could even run 3D graphics window managers, while Windows ppl need a freaking new peesee every three years.

So okay sorry Apple, that might not be totally your fault... however, the silly thermo paste definitely is.

I think we can agree on that.

Hans

WWith reference to the consumer law.

ive been to Apple today for the second time after speaking to the supervisor at apple.

my early 2011 MacBook pro is having its logic board replaced free of charge. It's out of the 1yr warranty by over 2yrs but we're very helpful once I mentioned the consumer law.

I am having the same problem. None of the options suggested worked for me even though it has worked for me in the past and i didn't want to try reflowing. What finally did the trick was closing the lid for about 3 minutes just before my macbook would hung and display white screen. It seemingly went to sleep and when I opened the lid, it displayed the pointer and the beachball for a while before booting correctly. Typing this on it now

Mogge Hans!

Hans Kramer wrote:

Ha die Kayazuki,

I think you are right, fixing the paste won't help anymore since I think the GPU has been too hot too many times and hence damaged the soldering...

So what did a reflow cost in Belgium? I even heard ppl doing it themselves with a heatgun by hand, but that is crazy!!!!

Hans

Hehe, yea, using a handgun is kind of asking for read damage, with a fair chance of missing essential reconnections, possibly causing too high temperatures which might cause short-circuiting between 2 tin balls, delaminating the PCB locally, maybe I missed a few

I think we should all consider that it may not even require OVER-heating, but that -in case of incomplete connections (personally I find the head-in-pillow description the most illustrative one, even though other types or errors might cause similar incomplete "pressure connections" rather then well flown connections) - normal repeatedly heating and cooling are already sufficient to cause such expansion that oxidation can get inbetween the miniscule gaps and do it's damage.

A treatment with a fluid that removes oxidation and then applying a very well controlled reflow so ALL connections are made correctly, is a really good suggestion for a durable fix. I paid €125 for my reflow and I'm very happy with it. If you make sure you're logged in (so not visiting as a guest), you can hover my account name and PM me for details.

Bradley Robertson wrote:

WWith reference to the consumer law.

ive been to Apple today for the second time after speaking to the supervisor at apple.

my early 2011 MacBook pro is having its logic board replaced free of charge. It's out of the 1yr warranty by over 2yrs but we're very helpful once I mentioned the consumer law.

Hi Bradley!

Just be prepared that you'll most likely be confronted with the same problem over and over.. and over again, as long as you're getting new logic boards. All logic boards (for this type at least, as you can read from many other posts here) are apparently produced in the same way and all contain the same kind of incomplete soldering connections under the GPU (rarely also under the CPU as I've heard). I must say that it's amazing to me that people from Apple still claim that they don't know about this issue and that insufficient people have reported this issue to even CONSIDER it an official production problem, while several law suits are already in motion. Is this entire denial thing really just happening because of a very simple financial equation or what...

kwamefromempire state wrote:

I am having the same problem. None of the options suggested worked for me even though it has worked for me in the past and i didn't want to try reflowing. What finally did the trick was closing the lid for about 3 minutes just before my macbook would hung and display white screen. It seemingly went to sleep and when I opened the lid, it displayed the pointer and the beachball for a while before booting correctly. Typing this on it now

Hi Kwame, just imagine 1 incomplete connection that actually exists of 2 "halves" touching each other, which never became 1 connection through liquid state. The smallest thermal deformations may then mean the difference between electrically connecting or not. So warmer or colder can mean the difference between seeing problems or not. If your "loose connection" is still not covered by oxidation too much yet, you may experience these "coming and going" issues. Once that connection is oxidised enough, your problem most likely won't go away anymore, no matter what you do.

hi, since 1,5 weeks i have same problems with my Mac Book Pro late 2011 with diskret gfx AMD Radeon HD 6750M.

It started with an interlace and split screen like screen flipping. Sometimes it rebooted.

If i pin the OS down to use the internal video card  only it will work. I did a lot of testing; the advanced Apple Hardware Check turned out as successful.
Yesterday during a restart it stuck after the apple logo. I could see that  the status bar was  nearly to middle until it went all grey.

5 reboots during a hour gives me the all the times a grey screen.

I was totally pi**ed . After 3 years of use i have again a brick on my table?

I remember a german blog entry. It was about to stress the AMD card to get the workstation started again.

The habbit once the gray screen comes up is different. Sometimes it is just silent grey and sometimes the fan starts rotating more and more.

I assume thats the AMD video card. So it took me on 2 reboots. No  during the  grey screen the fan makes noise.  Waiting for 20 minutes to stress the AMD followed by a reboot. Now the apple logo is plain grey and has no stripes. My desktop appears... OS X is running. Intel GFX loaded.

With gfxCardStatus i have chosen the Intel. NO crash so far.

Thats my 2nd Apple which goes down after 3 years and 1 month... strange what a coincidence?

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GPURestartReportEnd

Event:               GPU Reset

Data/Time:           Fri Jan  2 19:06:48 2015

Application:        

Path:               

OS Version:          Mac OS X Version 10.10.1 (Build 14B25)

Graphics Hardware:   AMD Radeon HD 6750M

Signature:           0

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Welcome to the club.... Well I haven't had that much bad luck. my iMac is now 4 years old and I only had a harddisk replacement, did it myself. It was a WD and they are supposed to be reliable so I don't blame Apple for that.

However, with my MBP 2011 I think it is a different case. I think they are at fault here and they should do something about it. I already had the top case replaced for 330 Euro and since my previous employer purchased this machine I don't get warranty under the consumer act. However, I don't thin k the consumer act as much applies here. It is that Apple should care about making quality products and in that respect differentiate themselves. Now issues such as with this edition of the MBP can happen and it does not prove they make bad products, it is just that something slipped thru the cracks. They charge more money for their systems than other manufactures, so they should have a buffer to fix these issues!

I think Apple should look at their products and say, hey once every three to four years something slips thru the cracks and a system has an issue, we charged more, we have put that money aside and now we can help those unfortunate loyal customers and help them out. Are you hearing me Apple? Isn't this reasonable! What else would keep me from buying a cheap clone with Linux or Chrome OS. Most killer apps are moving to the cloud anyway!

Apple we need your support!

Hans

Well, I see this thread is still going strong... at the very least, Apple could publish a software fix that would completely deactivate the AMD chip (similar to what gfxcardstatus does but more permanent. This at least would prolong the life of our computers couple more years. The idea of getting a motherboard replacement with the same defect makes me shiver.

Hoi Hans, you might be interested in my very long post on page 701: 2011 MacBook Pro and Discrete Graphics Card

It's somewhere 25% down the page. None of those statements are PROVEN facts, but just about the only theory that explains everything and also a theory that gets supported a lot by the very successful method of fixing (anti-oxidation treatment+reflow).

Maybe an interesting idea: The guy who fixed my machine told me he would need approx 10 boards from victims simultaneously, to make it affordable to do a full X-ray research session to prove that whole theory I wrote down on page 701..

Showing facts through multiple X-ray images would also be very concrete proof about the type of errors and could make a good statement towards Apple.

Anyone interested in such a research; feel free to PM me (u have to be registered+logged in to see my contact info under my user name).

r100 wrote:

Well, I see this thread is still going strong... at the very least, Apple could publish a software fix that would completely deactivate the AMD chip (similar to what gfxcardstatus does but more permanent. This at least would prolong the life of our computers couple more years. The idea of getting a motherboard replacement with the same defect makes me shiver.

But that would indicate they recognise the problem, which they very clearly choose not to for 2 years already.. :-/

I understand your idea, but seriously; who would even consider working with a machine of such a budget if it could only run on the integrated GPU..? That just feels plain sad actually..

Your are right. It would constitute an admission but it certainly would be the right thing to do until the legal team at Apple figures out how to deal with this major and recurring problem (since 2009 or even earlier on other MBP models).

edit: or does Apple expect us to dump our MBP's into the recycling bin every 3 years ?