Q: 2011 MacBook Pro and Discrete Graphics Card

Rich Walsh wrote:

 

That was my Apple Service Provider's advice

Bad advice, LiIon batteries should NOT be discharged to low levels, Apple recommend no less than 20%, best life is obtained by recharging between 30 and 60%.

The advice you got applied to NiCAD and NiMH batteries, it's been about 10 years since Apple used them.

Battery University will give you accurate information, your AASP guy is clueless.

Csound1 wrote:

For how long?

What is your experience regarding the longevity of the repair?

I'm sorry, I don't have a crystal ball telling me the future...

But.. My machine was 100% dead. There wasn't a thing anyone could do (neither at the Apple Service Center) to bring it back to life.

Then a reflow was done and it's running cooler and completely stable now.

The fact that it turned on in the first place after the reflow proves that there was an error in one or more of the contacts under the GPU, as only the GPU was reflowed, not the entire board.

If you consider the possibility that contacts are broken, either by time breaking good contacts due to thermal expansion, or by initial solder errors during production, then you can also consider that the contacts in question go from electrically making contact to electrically disconnected. And in both considered cases, time (and usage=temperature) is the enemy, which causes either a break alone eventually, but considering how most symptoms alear to gradually get worse and worse, it seems more like a "slow break" where oxidation might creep in between assisting to cause the failures.

Without a 3D Xray session like here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-2DyISn4cE (where you can clearly see head-in-pillow errors @ 0:28s next to good flown connections, due to a wrong soldering profile during production), it'll remain a 50-50 gamble whether we're talking about literal breaks, or head-in-pillows (or similar) coming loose.

Temperature is clearly a catalyst to the problem. Which is logical, higher temperatures can cause bigger displacements, allowing oxidation to penetrate more. Temperature is also a catalyst to oxidation as we all know.

Doing software adjustments in the first place means that you still have enough contact below that GPU to do anything at all. If you then do adjustments that prevent the GPU from getting hot, it's logical that you can then preserve what you have: An on-the-edge functional electrical connection at the bottle-neck.

Those "wrap in a blanket", or "bake in the oven" solutions, cause relative "sudden" excessive heat on the CPU, which primarily may cause solder parts to break through the oxidation layer or maybe make new partially flown connections which would last for some time.

It would be nice if multiple victims would want to have this sorted out permanently, by having their board 3D X-rayed, so actual research can shed light on the factual situation, so that this situation can at least be trimmed down to consistent advice for everyone and the ultimately useful message to Apple.

kayazuki wrote:

 

Csound1 wrote:

For how long?

What is your experience regarding the longevity of the repair?

I'm sorry, I don't have a crystal ball telling me the future...

Didn't ask that, how long has it lasted since the reflow, this is the time you can vouchsafe that it lasted for.

There are enough guesses in this thread already.

Hello all!

I have contacted a AASP here in Ireland to see if they knew about the issue and had any contact with Apple about it and to get some advice on fixing up my late 2011 MBP 17inch with all the same problems as people in this discussion. Screen went blue. Managed to boot in single use mode and disable the AMD drivers to get the system working again in basic graphics mode but I have green lines permanently on the screen. Machine is usable for email and typing this message but not at all for multimedia production work. I need the graphics.

Here is the reply:

"

At this time there is no Apple Repair Extension Program for MacBook Pro late 2011 computers. Apple customer services may deal with each issue case by case .The part numbers listed below are Logic Boards from a MacBook Pro 15” Late 2011, the part number for your MacBook Pro 17” is 661-6177.

Unfortunately, theres not much we can do other than to offer an out of warranty repair.

Regards,

Alan"

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Haggiss <https://discussions.apple.com/people/Haggiss?ac_cid=tw123456> has posted in the MacBook Pro community.

2011 MacBook Pro and Discrete Graphics Card <https://discussions.apple.com/message/27557760?ac_cid=tw123456#27557760>

Currently waiting for my 2nd replacement logic board replacement to go in and MBP returned to me.  While I was examining the Work Authorization, I noticed the 2nd replacement logic board has a different part number than the first - with a 0.1GHz speed increase!  Is it wishful thinking that the 2nd logic board is going to be different from the first and actually work for more than 3 months?

First Replacement: 661-6161: Board, Logic, 2.4 GHz

Second Replacement: 661-6162: Board, Logic, 2.5 GHz

To post a reply, go to the discussion <https://discussions.apple.com/message/27557760?ac_cid=tw123456#27557760>  in Apple Support Communities.-----------

As has already been stated a few times from people here, best advice is to try and get apple to sort the problem. We all need to ensure we log the problem with apple and notify them of this discussion and hope they sort the problem. It looks like a case by case basis for the moment. Reflow on my own with someone who could do it would be a last resort.

I hope Apple do the right thing ASAP!

I'll be logging my call with Apple and will let everyone here know the result.

Good luck to all.....

I trust everyone is familiar with the launch of class action against Apple in the US, look it up, 'Apple is expected to file a motion on Jan. 29 to dismiss this case'

Is this a different suit from the one that was recently dismissed?

I have the same issues as most users here. I purchased a Macbook Pro through Sweetwater Music in 2011 along with Pro Tools 9 at the time. I started getting screen splits, vertical lines and an assortment of graphics issues which always required a reboot. I had the logic board replaced before all of these issues started, but unfortunately Apples 90 day warranty had run out by about the time this issue started. Obviously this is a known issue and Apple should do the right thing by their customers and make this right. But, I guess the 17 billion they did in business this year does not exactly make us a priority. I remember when Gateway computers were held in such high regard. Where are they now? Word of mouth will hurt you if you allow it to continue.

Yes.

Lawsuit dismissed early Jan -

http://www.macrumors.com/2015/01/09/macbook-logic-board-lawsuit/

Forthcoming motion to dismiss Jan 29 -

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/whitfield-bryson--mason-llp-files-class- action-against-apple-inc-for-defective-2011-macbook-pro-laptops-280698962.html

I wasn't aware of the previous case, but as to this current one, I found the additional allegations interesting:

in 2011, Apple released a software update that reduced the graphical performance of the GPUs by 33 percent in order to prevent them from reaching temperatures that would cause the GPUs to fail.

The slow down technique doesn't fix the problem, instead it delays the problem as is apparent by the sudden influx of entries on this discussion.

Based on reports and decades of test engineer experience, swapping the motherboard will not fix the problem long term.  There are two issues:  All the boards that would be used in a swap program were built in a short period of time prior to any feedback about longevity problems, therefor all boards have the same manufacturing process.  The graphic components on existing boards have been heat stress to an unknown degree so all these chips need to be replaced if a recycle program is to be used.

Then there needs to be a proven test sequence that will highlight the problem.  Apple's current test set is lacking in this area.  Scan the web and its apparent that this manufacturing process problem has existed for many years and models of production.

My guess is there are couple of issues, the solder being used and placement.  The pick and place setup was off and the solder process lacked sufficient heat for the GPU chip.  Notice there are two GPU chips only one is failing.  When reflow is done the old chip springs back to life.

I think so too, word of mouth will hurt. Change doesn't happen over night. This problem just helped me open my eyes. I talked to a lot of windows users and they seem to be really happy with it. It seems like mighty OSX doesn't have such a big edge over windows anymore.

It feels like they also know this and they just want to milk the cash cow.

Hope we will eventually get the replacement we deserve instead of the repair we need : )

Did anyone had a succesfull reflow around Berlin? I would appreciate if you would let me know.

All the best...

Can you please provide a link to Apple's statement on this? Fascinating though that website is, there are more pressing things for me to do than take a degree course in battery engineering.

I don't understand why I must "NOT" do this to my battery. I have done it for 3.5 years and seen better performance out of my laptop than many others. I have not blown a whole in the fabric of space and time. As far as I can tell.

Then continue as you are.

You've made a big sweeping statement. Can you please cite some evidence? Otherwise you're just wasting people's time.

Rich Walsh wrote:

 

Otherwise you're just wasting people's time.

It does that most of the time.