Q: 2011 MacBook Pro and Discrete Graphics Card

KJKoncert wrote:

 

One last thing to keep in mind, if you do get a replacement Logic Board from Apple, they're basically replacing it with the same "defective design" that has already failed. Another reason why the re-flow with a heat-gun and new 'high end' thermal paste is, in my mind, the only way to go, other than a new machine. ........

My MacBook Pro died along with a few thousand more all over the world, all for the same issue.  Apple has a workmanship problem with solder that shows up on GPU chips that get really hot during normal operation.  The solder joint cracks from the stress of parts moving around as they heat and cool.   Apple’s manufacturing process is very precise and most people are using their computers in about the same way so the failures are equally precise, within days of each other depending on their purchase date.

Reflowing may be a temporary solution because the solder has not been changed.  It still has the characteristics it had when originally built, brittle.

My machine was repaired by replacing the GPU chip, new solder, new ceramic thermo paste.  The shop that did the job on 1st Ave in NY city called today saying they are shipping my 17" early 2011 MBP back to our prairie home.  While they were in there they noticed one fan starting to make a noise so they replaced it, no charge.  Rossmann also commented that my battery was at about 80% of life.

So what do you think of that customer service?

So, I would like to tell my experience with the Apple Customer support, till now.

I've a MacBook Pro Early 2011, and last week, i've experienced the issue of the 'dying' graphic card (it's a AMD in my MacBook). I've called Apple Support and they advised to go to the Apple Store, so I went to Amsterdam (NL) and explained the problem.

In The Netherlands (I don't know if it's in the whole EU like this), you have something called Consumentenrecht (Consumer right). It basically says: when you buy a product with this price, you generally may expect that it will last longer than 3 years. I did a 'claim' at the Genius Bar and showed them this topic, as well as the petition at change.org. After a 30 second conversation with his manager, the guy at the genius bar told me that the whole logic board would be replaced, free of charge.

I can pick it up this afternoon. I know that it's a replacement logic board that can have the same flaws, but for now I'm saved, and it has a 90 day warranty on the logic board again. I will give a update this afternoon when the MacBook is in my hands again.

Couple things here. Great customer service by the way! I wish Apple would follow their example.

So you basically did what they call a "re-ball" similar to reflowing except you got a new GPU soldered to the logicboard with "hopefully " better solder than was originally used, but probably at a heftier cost than a re-flow. Keep us posted on how it goes!

"Re-flowing may be temporary because the original solder is used" This is true, however we're hoping that because a better grade of thermal paste was used, and I can document lower GPU temps since the re-flow process, that the new temps will not cause the same fluctuation while heating and cooling, thus breaking the solder once again. My original MBP lasted nearly 4 years with no problems, if I get another 2 years after the reflow, I'm happy enough.

My conclusion is that re-flowing (old GPU and re-heating solder, and re-balling (new GPU new Solder) are the only ways to correct the problem. Replacing the logic board only replaces it with an identical logic board which is inherently flawed by design. A re-flow is something that can be done safely and cheaply, for as little as $40. Re-balling the unit is the cost of the new GPU, and having it professionally soldered to the board. Beyond what I would feel comfortable doing at home. Personally, I would try the re-flow solution first. But there is always a re-ball as a back up.

Good luck!

KJKoncert wrote:

So you basically did what they call a "re-ball" similar to reflowing except you got a new GPU soldered to the logicboard with "hopefully " better solder than was originally used, but probably at a heftier cost than a re-flow. Keep us posted on how it goes!

Reball is NOT  similar to reflow.

Reball is taking of the chip, clean mobo and bga, put new balls, mostly lead solder, on the chip and resolder it to the mobo.

KJKoncert wrote:

"Re-flowing may be temporary because the original solder is used" This is true, however we're hoping that because a better grade of thermal paste was used, and I can document lower GPU temps since the re-flow process, that the new temps will not cause the same fluctuation while heating and cooling, thus breaking the solder once again. My original MBP lasted nearly 4 years with no problems, if I get another 2 years after the reflow, I'm happy enough.

The problem is not the original solder. Imo it was the solder process not giving a 100% liquidus on all solder balls (about 950).

KJKoncert wrote:

re-flowing (old GPU and re-heating solder

re-heating is not enough. Has to be re-soldering, which you can not allways be sure of with a DIY solution.

KJKoncert wrote:

re-balling (new GPU new Solder)

See above for reball.

If one claims to put on a NEW CHIP WITH LEAD SOLDER BALLS, that simply does NOT EXIST.

All NEW BGA bought are lead free (except the legally alowed exceptions)

If bought with lead solder balls, it is a recycled reballed chip, surely not new.

Or it is bought new, with lead free solder on it, and then reballed with lead by the one placing it.

What I sometimes do if that person wants a new chip but lead solder.

Btw, mostly not the best solution, but might be the best on older devices using easy to destroy chips.

I just resurrected my early 2011 from a total lockup of both blue screen and white screen of death.  It required a login as single user, deleting AMD files after backing them up, and a full online recovery and restore of my mac.  (which coincidentally I lost allot of data and as a web developer, was allot)  Thankfully when I first noticed the garbled screen I started making backups of ALL my data.

My last conversation with a senior adviser agreed that these are signs of hardware failure and agreed to replace my mac (with a 2012 model at best) and told me he would be sending a shipping label to send it in and guess what?  I never received the email nor will the two techs I spoke with return my calls.

If I were you, I would immediately start backing up all your data because this is a sign of hardware failure from my experience.  (two apple repairs, screen alignment, new ram, new cpu ext...)

I'm currently working on a third total crash....

Very disappoint to find my MacBook Pro has developed the GPU fault

KJKoncert wrote:

.....

A re-flow is something that can be done safely and cheaply, for as little as $40. Re-balling the unit is the cost of the new GPU, and having it professionally soldered to the board. Beyond what I would feel comfortable doing at home. Personally, I would try the re-flow solution first. But there is always a re-ball as a back up.

 

Good luck!

The cost of the new chip soldered in place including shipping came to slightly more than half the $603 cost Apple quoted for replacing the mother board.

Without a doubt there are less expensive repairs methods.  We pay our money and take our chances.  Based on the character of the small business owner who did the job and my decades of experience in the electronics industry, I feel confident that my MBP will serve me reliably for years to come.

The folks involved in this discussion are looking for reliable solutions, therefore when someone gets their computer fixed it would be much appreciated if they would keep folks updated on their continuing experiences.  I will keep this discussion informed.

Thanks to this discussion group I learned about several choices.  That led to searching for a reliable shop to make the repair. For a kid from the midwest my first reaction when finding this place in NYC was to look else where.  But then I found other sources that keep bringing back to this same guy.  My computer wasn't in the mail 5 seconds before the second thoughts begin.

Then one day the phone rang.  I have listen to people try and BS me on electronics stuff more than once in my life.  The guy that called was the owner and not a BS'er.

The display, the astronauts are always looking at but you never see in Apollo 13, in real life was a 12"x12", 50 dot per inch, amber colored plasma display in hermetically sealed packaging.  A four man team developed that display system in Roseville, MN.  Dick passed a few years ago, Bob still lives in Minnesota, Al lives in Phoenix and I live in South Dakota.

jimoase — where in NYC did you send your MBPro to be fixed, what was done to it, and what was cost?

When I looked online some time ago, the main service providers I found for reball/reflow that looked like they knew what they're doing were Tfix in London (£200 - £270, $308-$416) and PowerbookMedic in AL ($300-$400). Search results kept returning paid ads for Macservice in Santa Clara CA which I called, but if not mistaken they were around $600 for reflow or reball, not sure which, as much as new logic board, or maybe they didn't do anything but logicboard replacement - can't remember.

I managed to get my logicboard replaced at no cost at Apple Depot in Memphis, but it wasn't necessarily "free". I doubt if anyone would want to go through what I've been going through SINCE JAN 5th, and am still going through just for a "free" logicboard replacement, which if this thread is any indication, may not even be a permanent fix. My MBPro 15"early'11 now works, but I wonder if it's "cancer" is just in "recession" and could return God knows when!

Which is why I want to know where, how, what, and how much it cost for your fix.

I'll put that info in my notes in case I need it, and hope and pray I never do.

not out that it appears Apple cares, but just came to say my early 2011 MBP just fell victim to this as well. I'm disgusted with their silence on this issue. Back to PCs.

I wasn't sure how Apple would react to putting contact information in the discussion.  I mentioned where as 1st Ave New York City and the owner I talked with as Rossmann.  Google will do the rest for you.

I see from website that MacBook logicboard repair runs $325-$425 there.

So you had your discrete GPU reballed and consider that a permanent fix?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rework_(electronics)

Besides running GpuTest stress test,

http://www.geeks3d.com/gputest/

what do you think I should watch for or can do since my logicboard was replaced?
How long would you run test and how often?
I have 90 day warranty so the clock's ticking.

Darrell Stall wrote:

 

How long would you run test and how often?
I have 90 day warranty so the clock's ticking.

For myself I am going to install gfxCardStatus so that it displays the active GPU status on the Menu Bar.  With the MagSafe plugged in,  one at time I am going to find every application and website that I can that will turn that status to discrete GPU and keep it there.  Once I have found a half dozen of them then I am going to find one site or application that does not turn on the discrete processor.  One at a time I am going to find all the applications or sites that keep the discrete processor active even when that site or application is in the background while I am viewing the non-discrete site or application.

Armed with sites or application that will use the discrete processor while in the background.  I will activate all of them and switch to the integrated application or site periodically checking and recording the GPU and GPU diode temp and fan speeds.  After 24 hours if those readings seem stable I am going to go about my regular business.  Periodically I am going to monitor and record the GPU and GPU diode temp and fan speeds for week or so.  If that remains stable.  I am satisfied the repair is effective.

Then I would like to find a way to install the firmware previous to Apple's update that slowed the discrete GPU by about 33%.  I see no need to try and shift the failure window out in time by lowering GPU temps when the properly repaired board is temperature stable.

That is my plan.  The last part might be a pipe dream to get some performance back that I paid for and lost because Apple deceived me with a "firmware update" that advantaged Apple after collecting my money.  That firmware deal still frosts me.  Sold me one thing and then without my permission took it away.

My early 2011 MacBook Pro seems to be toast like so many others. I rely on this computer, which I custom ordered from Apple new just under $3,000, and spent another $1000 in additional upgrades after purchase. As a small business owner, I cannot afford to replace the laptop, or the cost of repair, especially when my only avenue of income is heavily dependent on a proper computer, and not the iPad I have to struggle to type this reply with. I have a feeling I'm going to lose my S at the Apple Store on Thursday when I take it in and find out I'll be out of pocket hundreds of dollars I do not have.

Darrell Stall wrote:

 

Apple Depot in Memphis, ......

Anywhere near Millington?  I went to "A", "B" and instructor training at an air station near there in the era James Meredith was being admitted to Old Miss.

Scolirk wrote:

 

My early 2011 MacBook Pro seems to be toast like so many others. I rely on this computer...

Some one can make a fortune if they had a couple of spare mother boards that already have the GPU replaced and the ability to replace GPU chips.  The could do a swap board repair business with a fast turn around.  Armed with an overnight courier and volume the costs could be driven down and the repair cycles very short.  Just a thought.  Its a short term business but who knows Apple could pull this trick on some other product.