Q: 2011 MacBook Pro and Discrete Graphics Card

took it to the apple certified service center in provincial Russia, waiting for call. I think have to wait long

jimoase wrote:

 

Charles Houghton-Webb wrote:

 

...........

The other thing that bothers me about stress testing my newly repaired machine is if the stress test DOESN'T break it !

I would have, all told, just given my "like new" computer, a hammering for nothing!!

 

True if "for nothing" includes finding out " the stress test DOESN'T break it !" in lieu of the stress test does break it.

 

Computers aren't exactly like batteries, where a certain amount of use will render than unusable.

 

You are certainly right… to a point It's a fact that electronic parts age faster when running hotter. That's why so much effort is made to keep parts cool.

Apart from any electronics pros and cons discussions, which won't advance things much, from a purely practical point of view, how many things do you buy, and immediately go test its breaking point.

When my MBP gave up 4 months ago, I opted to put it aside in the hope of a future repair plan from Apple, and just replace it.

The 15" retina that replaced it was just put into service normally, doing what I always did with my computers before. I did not attempt to see if it would smoke if I stressed it out. Was that unwise of me ? I think not

Now my 17" has gone in for repair, under Apple's warranty programme. I trust that Apple will repair it correctly and that I'll get the usage I would have hoped for from this machine. Is that really naif of me ? Maybe… perhaps I'm getting soft in my old age

Accelerated aging from running hotter only becomes a factor when looking at bigger timescales (months on end). Stress testing a GPU or CPU for hours on end will not (or I should say... SHOULD not) detrimentally age a GPU.

Your "purely practical point of view" on testing purchases to the point of breaking is flawed -- these tests will only "break" your macbook if the macbook has this troublesome design flaw, and otherwise are of no consequence. The laptop has no feelings and will not think you've given it a "hammering", nor will it be adversely affected by said "hammering". You are coddling your electronics too much.

Once upon a time I trusted Apple's logic board repairs.... I have since had 4x replacements... see where that trust has gotten me...

Charles Houghton-Webb wrote:

 

jimoase wrote:

 

Charles Houghton-Webb wrote:

 

...........

The other thing that bothers me about stress testing my newly repaired machine is if the stress test DOESN'T break it !

I would have, all told, just given my "like new" computer, a hammering for nothing!!

 

True if "for nothing" includes finding out " the stress test DOESN'T break it !" in lieu of the stress test does break it.

 

Computers aren't exactly like batteries, where a certain amount of use will render than unusable.

 

You are certainly right… to a point It's a fact that electronic parts age faster when running hotter. That's why so much effort is made to keep parts cool.

Apart from any electronics pros and cons discussions, which won't advance things much, from a purely practical point of view, how many things do you buy, and immediately go test its breaking point.

When my MBP gave up 4 months ago, I opted to put it aside in the hope of a future repair plan from Apple, and just replace it.

The 15" retina that replaced it was just put into service normally, doing what I always did with my computers before. I did not attempt to see if it would smoke if I stressed it out. Was that unwise of me ? I think not

Now my 17" has gone in for repair, under Apple's warranty programme. I trust that Apple will repair it correctly and that I'll get the usage I would have hoped for from this machine. Is that really naif of me ? Maybe… perhaps I'm getting soft in my old age

If you do what you have always done are you expecting your new system to operate about the same as your old system, which died 4 months ago and was replaced by the newest system available?  Or do you have some criteria for acceptable performance below which is unacceptable?

We know electronics parts have a long life operating temperature range, beyond that range, as a function of time, the parts begins to degrade exponentially.  Apple designs there machines to stay within that long life range by using temperature sensors and fan RPM sensors.  When temps get too high for safe operation the machine shuts off.  When the fan speed gets too high the machine shuts off or an if any combination of temp and fan speed get outside the safe operation envelop the machine shuts off.

Therefore if those safe sensors are functioning properly and the software algorithm is appropriate the likely hood of stressing the machine beyond safe operation is very low. 

So far there have been no reports on this discussion of safe guard protections failing.  There have been reports of the thermo paste failures and GPU connection failures happening within the normal operation range.  There have been discussions that suggest that heat/cooling cycles maybe the kind of operation that stresses the machine sufficient to fracture solder connections and can be repaired with "re-Flow".  There have been reports of needing a second reflow suggesting that the mechanical characteristics of the solder is critical to a long operation life.

So like when buying any machine the operator is wise to test it for proper operation before the warranty expires.  Kind of like taking your hands off the wheel and slamming the brakes on.  Nice to know if the brakes will work appropriately when you really need them.

jimoase wrote:

 

If you do what you have always done are you expecting your new system to operate about the same as your old system, which died 4 months ago and was replaced by the newest system available?  Or do you have some criteria for acceptable performance below which is unacceptable?

OK… I wasn't planning on starting a major, and mostly irrelevant debate here ! I will let drop any further comment apart from noting how messed up your above statement is ! Where is the logic in that ? Why on earth should I be expecting a new system to break down ? The very opposite is true!

Anyhow, think what you will. I will personally not stand in front of a shooting range if I buy a bulletproof jacket, just to see if it works

Charles Houghton-Webb wrote:

 

jimoase wrote:

 

If you do what you have always done are you expecting your new system to operate about the same as your old system, which died 4 months ago and was replaced by the newest system available?  Or do you have some criteria for acceptable performance below which is unacceptable?

OK… I wasn't planning on starting a major, and mostly irrelevant debate here ! I will let drop any further comment apart from noting how messed up your above statement is ! Where is the logic in that ? Why on earth should I be expecting a new system to break down ? The very opposite is true!

Anyhow, think what you will. I will personally not stand in front of a shooting range if I buy a bulletproof jacket, just to see if it works

Faith

When you have come to the edge of all that is know

Faith is believing you will be given something solid to stand on or taught how to fly.

Does wearing a bulletproof jacket to test it seem like a test of faith or wisdom to you?

My original point was and is we need to test what ever we buy to insure we got what we believe we paid for.  You belief is that the vendor would not sell you a faulty product.  Many others probably believed as you when they bought their MBP.  Most probably still believed the vendor wouldn't sell a faulty product and certainly will be best source for reliable repairs when their machine broke.

Most would not have realized they were part of a vary large group of people had they not found this discussion.  So they would have even thought it a fluke when the repair broke again and probably got a bit teed off when the machine failed for a third time or even a forth time.  They would have thought it was just bad luck because they believed that Apple was a quality vendor of computers.

As a result of this discussion some have come to doubt the quality of Apple's virtues, so they trust but verify.  You seem to trust no matter what.  Not everyone shares your belief.

By the way bullet proof jackets tend to be use once and toss items.

Faith

When you have come to the edge of all that is know

Faith is believing you will be given something solid to stand on or taught how to fly.

 

Does wearing a bulletproof jacket to test it seem like a test of faith or wisdom to you?

 

Both! Faith that it will work and wise to be actually wearing it, if you're going to test it !

 

My original point was and is we need to test what ever we buy to insure we got what we believe we paid for.

… and mine, that most people don't, or can't do this !

I bought a well known make of car a few years back, brand new. I did what you do with a new car, take it for a spin on some windy roads, a burst down the motorway, carefully listening for strangeness… Three years later, it was recalled to fix a problem I was totally unaware of, that I could not possibly have found myself, short of the part failing on me. Neither particular faith nor wisdom here… just life !

 

You belief is that the vendor would not sell you a faulty product.

… how did you conclude that, I wonder ? See below…

 

Many others probably believed as you when they bought their MBP.  Most probably still believed the vendor wouldn't sell a faulty product and certainly will be best source for reliable repairs when their machine broke.

 

Most would not have realized they were part of a vary large group of people had they not found this discussion.  So they would have even thought it a fluke when the repair broke again and probably got a bit teed off when the machine failed for a third time or even a forth time.  They would have thought it was just bad luck because they believed that Apple was a quality vendor of computers.

 

As a result of this discussion some have come to doubt the quality of Apple's virtues, so they trust but verify.  You seem to trust no matter what.  Not everyone shares your belief.

 

You know nothing of what I trust or believe Do I trust Apple blindly ? I was the proud owner of a shiny water cooled MacPro that leaked  and caught fire. I've had a MacBook and an iPod with explosive batteries… what do you think ? Should I even trust your opinions… maybe so, maybe no… My beliefs are my own. I do believe that you start wars deciding what people believe, or should be believing…

 

By the way bullet proof jackets tend to be use once and toss items.

… which means of course that, if you test them, you have to throw them away after… Whoops! No jacket!!

Charles Houghton-Webb wrote:

 

Faith

When you have come to the edge of all that is know

Faith is believing you will be given something solid to stand on or taught how to fly.

 

Does wearing a bulletproof jacket to test it seem like a test of faith or wisdom to you?

 

Both! Faith that it will work and wise to be actually wearing it, if you're going to test it !

 

......

 

I guess what can be concluded its that if one person thinks of a way to test something, there are no other choices.   Maybe... If you just put a bullet proof jacket on a wall and shot it that might not be much of a test.  Some people might think that would be a good way to test prototypes.

When someone says something about themselves, if your interested in that person, listen and believe them, they know who they are and what they are talking about.

Suggesting that you believe as I do is rude.  Suggesting that you believe as you say you believe is done out of respect.

When someone buys something they decided to make the purchase to accomplish something.  If that purchase meets their need its a good buy, if it fails to meet the need, its not a good buy.  Only the person making the purchase can make the determination.   That is the test.

Hey laest,

danke für die Info!

I'm really curious how it will play out, please tell us when you get it back! Maybe you notice a difference in System Profiler...

Also:

Could you tell me where exactly you handed your MBP in? Did you talk directly to Apple via hotline or did you go to an authorized store or whatever they are called?  I just wonder which way is better (e.g. more competent)..

but anyhow, where I live there is no real apple store..just the authorized whatevers (IF they are in the first place..).

What exactly does TDP mean? Sorry I cannot figure it out in the moment.(it is already late here )... does it have sth. to do with thermal paste or do you mean the chip is less powerful?

kind of confused, hope you can enlighten me!

@ all:  do you think if I call the respective apple person by the respective phone number and ask what is exactly done with the boards they will tell me?

I know people here say Apple says nothing but has anyone ever tried to get to talk to a technician? Is it possible?  please tell us if you have done so,

thx!

I'd just like definite proof... (I know I could just try, too, but I'm too busy right now during the day to do so...and experience from others is always useful...)

Have a great week!

MuddyMic wrote:

 

 

What exactly does TDP mean? Sorry I cannot figure it out in the moment.(it is already late here )... does it have sth. to do with thermal paste or do you mean the chip is less powerful?

TDP = Thermal Design Power.

= The max heat generated by a cpu the cooling system has to dissipate.

Older chips mostly have higher TDP value as the newer ones get smaller dies with lesser dissipation.

However, Haswell got hotter again (higher TDP) compared to it's predecssor Ivy Bridge.

TDP in itself has nothing to with the power of the chip, only the heat it generates and needs to be cooled.

Although more powerfull chips from the same generation will have a higher TDP value most likely.

Hi MuddyMic,

since I'm currently living in Munich, the official Apple Store was my first choice. But you also can call Apple to pick up your mac and repair it.

The guy in the Apple Store did two tests to check if it really is the problem with the GPU.

I hope to get it back by this week. I will let you guys know if anything has changed (Still hoping to get Bluetooth 4.0 with the new logic board )

Hi laest,

laest wrote:

 

(Still hoping to get Bluetooth 4.0 with the new logic board )

I got my repaired late 2011 MBP 17" back from the Apple Store in Basel, Switzerland, this past Saturday.  The Profiler (About this Mac ...) displays no evident changes in the hardware.  Specifically, the Bluetooth report indicates "LMP Version: 0x4" (i.e., not Bluetooth 4.0).  I have read reports here that repaired machines accept 1600 MHz memory, but my Memory report states "Your Mac contains 2 memory slots, each of which accepts a 1333 MHz DDR3 memory module" and shows each slot filled with an 8 GB module.

Undoubtedly, the changes to the motherboards depend on the MBP model, but I wouldn't want Apple changing things that aren't broken in the process of fixing things that are.

Ah, ****, would have been a nice benefit

The guy that I spoke to in Munich told me that the 15" early MBP is able to handle 1600mhz ram (officially 8GB in total, but also 16GB)

I have 16GB 1333mhz ram in my mbp and it works well

Ok so I picked up my repaired 17-inch Macbook Pro early-2011 last night and it feels like a totally new machine. It is even faster before the video issue completely took over my machine. It's like having a brand new computer but with all my dad still in it!!

Since there were some video glitches when I tested it at the Genius Bar, they reinstall the system without moving my personal data, and it is amazing now!!

I confirm my 16GB ram it still inside and it is 1333Mhz, my bluetooth version is 0x4 therefore it is not 4.0. Also looking at the board it seems to be different.

I ran the Heaven stress test last night for a few minutes but I don't understand how to test it properly, but no video issues seemed to appear!

I am really satisfied even if it took a bit for Apple to take action!

"with all my dad still in it!"

I'm thinking of the regrettable sitcom "My Mother the Car".