Q: 2011 MacBook Pro and Discrete Graphics Card

The forum thread, titled “2011 MacBook Pro and Discrete Graphics Card,” has amassed over 200K views and includes over 2,487 Replies spanning over 170 pages and Apple is still turning a blind eye to it.

It appears that most of the complaints are recent, suggesting that a design flaw is eating away at the integrity (longevity) of the computer’s graphics card. Many believe the problem is tied to the computer’s cooling mechanism.

Believe me, it will get worse and worst and eventually it will render your good old mac useless.

APPLE WE HAVE GIVEN YOU OUR MONEY AND TRUST AND WHERE ARE YOU WHEN WE NEED YOU? I THINK WE ALL SHOULD DO A LITTLE BIT OF DIGGING ON CONSUMER RIGHTS. MORE THAN 2K PEOPLE WITH THE SAME ISSUE, I DO NOT CALL IT COINCIDENCE... I CALL IT DESIGN FLAW!

ps3specialist wrote:

 

The problem is just like you stated, there is no enough reballers in every country and that is why even in the countries where you can find really good reballers we don't work for companies, why manufacturers would hire reballers knowing that the reballing procedure for most reballers would take three or four hours for each reballing so how many reballer they need to hire to service all their repairs that need reballing and where they will find them, the easy way for any manufacturer is to sell a new logic board which they all do in this situation.

The proper fix yet simple fix is to simply desolder the GPU, clean up the pads and solder on a new one. There're very few places where proper (read: automatically using machines) reballing can be done, one of them being the manufacturer. However they're usually not capable of reballing just a few used chips but only balling new ones in big numbers, at least that's what Infineon told me a couple of years ago.

Replacing the GPU can be done in many places and shouldn't take that much longer compared to just replacing the logic board.

Reballing the original GPU is just as good as replacing it with a new one and you save the cost of a new one which is around $50 to $100 depends on the model number.

Reballing the original GPU is just as good as replacing it with a new one and you

No, absolutely not. For one you'll end up with a used GPU which might develop internal errors much earlier (especially if it was operated with the shoddy thermal paste job Apple used to do running at a higher temperature than needed). Secondly desoldering, reballing and reflowing adds more thermal stress to the chip especially since they're not designed to be desoldered again.

the cost of a new one which is around $50 to $100 depends on the model number.

I guess your labor and reballing materials are free, right?

I've watched real pros from a manufacturer do a manual reball having access to the right tools and genuine masks and balls. The only reason why he did that was because the chip was an early run with problems they could not really reproduce with other chips so they had to recondition a couple of failing ones; they'd never do that for any other reason because reballing is just too expensive (and potentially fragile) compared to a new chip.

Even if it really did cost more in this specific case (here in Europe they prices are somewhat identical) I'd always recommend a new GPU over a reball job.

Sorry degger, disagree with you on that.

As I wrote here ages ago, imo, this problem is only  (production) soldering related.

Nothing wrong with the chip imo. A reball wil solve it correctly.

In this case it's not really the reball itself, but the solddirng process used for attaching it again.

If that is done making sure all balls became fully liquid long enough, using a good flux etc resulting in a perfect solder joint it will be better as new (which fails...).

Manufacturers have to work in a to tight window sometimes not giving a 100% soldering results on all components, mostly BGA's, resulting in glued, head in pillow or other effects on the solder balls.

When we solder the BGA back on, the soldering process is only for that BGA, not the whole pcb.

Resulting in a much better result for all those balls.

I have the right equipment, tools, stencills and balls too.

As I also have the experience and knowledge for it.

In the end, it all comes down to the reballer's knowledge and experience,

You'd be surprised how fast some people can reball a chip.

Has anyone in germany contacted the consumer protection central (Vebraucherschutzzentrale)?

Sorry degger, disagree with you on that.

As I wrote here ages ago, imo, this problem is only  (production) soldering related.

Nothing wrong with the chip imo. A reball wil solve it correctly.

...

In the end, it all comes down to the reballer's knowledge and experience,

Doesn't look like we're much in disagreement here. However chips do age and will fail at some point, especially if they've been operated just so within or outside specifications (as may happen with the horrible thermal paste application out of the box) they'll fail much quicker so I'd rather take a new GPU over a reballed one for a longer potential life time. And since it much harder to do a manual reball correctly than it is to just reflow a new GPU I'd rather trust the manufacturer than a random reballer.

You'd be surprised how fast some people can reball a chip.

Maybe, but that's neither the point nor should it be my problem.

Hi D3us, I am following this thread since the beginning and I too believe that this is a soldering problem. But I still don’t know why only the GPU is affected. The CPU is soldered using the same BGA technology, suffers the same temperature stress/cycles as the GPU (sometimes even bigger temperature deltas, as I didn’t see GPUs at 100C). Do you have any hint why this is almost exclusive to the discreet GPU chip?

GPU's get hotter then CPU's.

Due the mechanical stress from heating up/cooling down the glued/head-in-pillow or other bad solder joints loose contact.

Or it could be the amount of paste they put on: 

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+15-Inch+Unibody+Early+2011+Teardown/4 990#s22457

degger wrote:

And since it much harder to do a manual reball correctly than it is to just reflow a new GPU I'd rather trust the manufacturer than a random reballer.

Yeah, sure, Apple or it's subcontractor really did/do a good job on this.

Same on the replaced/repaired/refurbished motherboards. Failing again after 4 months, out of warranty again, or even within a few hours after picking up and using again.

Really trustfull manufacturers.

Where I, and others like me, have repairs running for years... All doing manual reballs using our own reflow profile.

But I do have to agree on one thing... I don't like "random reballers"  either.

You'd be surprised how fast some people can reball a chip.

Maybe, but that's neither the point nor should it be my problem.

You did comment on it.

Same thing happened to my 15" MBP recently, just under 3 years since it went into service. This needs to be filed as a class action lawsuit considering this is clearly a design flaw.

My computer is still running due to an expensive software solution - I was told to use software that utilizes the Integrated Only graphics card. As the technician I used described it, there is nothing wrong with the discrete and integrated modules when used separately, it's the switching/integration mechanism that is most likely to blame.

Really trustfull manufacturers.

Obviously I meant the manufacturer of the chips, not the assembly lines.

This thread is a pretty good statistical metric.  Have you seen a similar instance of a large number of similarly aged machines of the same brand from a common production run that have all thrown up the same fault?  If you expect expensive machines to fail within three years as a matter of course then we have very different expectations.  I have no doubt that in your professional experience this may be the case and, yes, you offer a solution at a reasonable price.  But I doubt if even Apple would be anticipating their machines to be failing so quickly.

BTW ps3specialist, what led you to this thread in the first place?  You are offering a valuable service (which I might take up if I lived closer, had the spare cash and didn't want Apple to take responsibility) but, as you are possibly the only person on this discussion who isn't posting about their own machine, I wondered how you found it?