Q: 2011 MacBook Pro and Discrete Graphics Card

D3us wrote:

 

But some of these "innvovations"  have been catched up by apple later too.

Such as?  I'm talking about successfully marketed technological innovation that is aped by other manufacturers.

Guys, dig this, also a lot EBTH https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2787732?start=150&tstart=0

Everyone, just get it reballed. Pay using your own money and then never buy an apple product again.

Tell every one who will listen how apple treat their customers.

Wait for their 45.6 billion in revenue to go down as we all slowly start to switch and laugh.

Steve is looking down in disgust at every apple employee. Not one of them is doing anything. Not escuslating in meetings. Every one is being quiet.

Apple hate google and samsung. Lets give them record profits. Bye bye apple. Your rotten now.

My macbook pro late 2011 17" sitting in a box. My shiny new Samsung at 50% of the cost running lovely. Standard 2 year warranty! At least if it dies after 2 years I can buy another one and get another 2 years......so for the same price as my 2 year apple i can have a 4 year guarantee Samsung..... Also who knows....maybe this Samsung will last longer than the Apple 2 years!!!

Good luck to all those still wanting to live the Apple dream.....such a pity it had to end this way. Still the best looking designs on the market for laptops but we need ones that work , not just look pretty.

DMC440 wrote:

 

D3us wrote:

 

But some of these "innvovations"  have been catched up by apple later too.

 

Such as?  I'm talking about successfully marketed technological innovation that is aped by other manufacturers.

It's a broad assumption stating "they're always playing catch up."

Many of these devices had been brought out before Ap[lle by the companies you mentioned.

(Which might have picked them up from others before...)

Tablet picked up again by Apple again later?

http://computer.howstuffworks.com/tablets/tablet3.htm

iPhone, ok, improved by, but in the end also picked up by Apple again later?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_digital_assistant

"In 1994, IBM introduced the first PDA with full mobile phone functionality, the IBM Simon, which can also be considered the first smartphone"

First iPhone was 2007?

iPod?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_digital_media_player

It were all already existing technologies picked up by apple again later.

Stating that Apple is "the innovator" which all copied from...

For me, the ones bringing out those thechnologies first, before Apple picked them up later again, where the real innovators.

It's a broad assumption stating "they're always playing catch up."

Yes, it's a broad generalisation but certainly not an assumption.  And innovation isn't synonymous with invention. Apple didn't invent the mouse but they made it work, made it popular and then everyone else adopted it, etc, etc...

I think you're missing my point but let's not pursue it here - it's not the right forum and I don't want to waste energy defending Apple in these circumstances.

Except to say "IBM Simon"???  And you wonder why these "innovations" never caught on at the time...

I am writing this from the bulkiest, most unattractive but completely functional, thick plastic, latch-covered, boxy 2007 Dell Laptop I've ever seen. On May 27, 2014, David Lynch pushed my Early 2011 15" Macbook Pro (with the AMD Radeon HD 6750m) over the edge. As the credits finished rolling on the Twin Peaks series finale that I was streaming on Netflix (not even in HD), my computer screen turned brown with vertical stripes. Of course, my AppleCare expired just a few weeks ago, on May 3, 2014.

While I'd winced at the sporadic multi-colored graphics card glitch during Photoshop use (and didn't take my laptop in because I couldn't reproduce the issue), I'd never seen this. I closed the lid and heard a series of 3 beeps over and over again until I pressed the power button. When I attempted to reboot, I saw a gray screen with horizontal lines hideously wriggling all over. I pressed the power button again, reset the NVRAM/PRAM to no avail, then I tried booting in safe mode.

Amazingly, safe mode seemed fine and I was able to save and print the kernel panic details that popped up. I was also able to run a final Time Machine backup. When the backup finished, I shut down once more, knowing the machine likely would not boot again. Of course, it didn't. It hung on the gray Apple screen then shut off, whether I was trying to boot in safe mode or not.

At my appointment in the 5th Ave location, a Genius ran a diagnostic and all hardware components passed. Then she attempted to run a hard drive diagnostic and the computer shut off. When she tried to boot it up again, the screen appeared split and she went off to prepare paperwork for the $310 umbrella repair, which will include a logic board replacement.

I would show you a photo of the visual symptoms that appeared that day, but I can't. I am a photographer, and those photos are still stuck on my camera along with a few weeks worth of RAW files that I still have to process for clients. So here I am, completely stalled while I await the return and full-functionality of my faithful workhorse this unfortunate model of Macbook Pro, which, from what I've read about this recurring issue, I may NEVER have.

And I know what a nightmare repairs can be - my 2006 15" MBP was out of my possession for over 40 total days after a bad left IO board repair created other problems. At least that model lasted a bit over 5 years.

I don't know if this forum was a disparaging forum or a helpful forum, but I will tell about my computer on this and another forum which seems a bit more about helping people out with their computers.

I had same problems as all other people here. I basically diagnosed it on my own, after doing as much at home McGyvering as possible. (PRAM/SMC/etc etc).

I'm in India for 6 mo so had no apple shop to go to, besides that all the parts are probably astronomical here, as they usually are in countries outside the US. The Licensed apple store rand diagnostics and said no hardware issues. I was going to come back for a software re-install, since I don't have software here on CD, as it's back in the states. Upon reading somewhere back in pg 126 or so of this forum, some guy in India had his graphics card reballed for 2500 R ($41.5 USD) at a place across town and he said they did a good job in 1.5 hrs.

I decided to go for it, since I was sending out my portfolio in 4 days for a once in a lifetime job (and realized my whole portfolio was terminated by the hosting site bc i forgot to pay the bill back in March. ick) Thus. I REALLY REALLY needed my computer for portfolio work.

Well, I gave the guys my computer. They said more like 2 days, which turned into 3 days. They took out the graphics card (not a BGA Reball, oh well) and put the same (but newer) in. I dunno how long it will last (I will loyally keep all temps low as I'm a graphic designer and my CS makes it HOT!). But in total I had it out for 3 days, graphics card for 5,500 R($92 USD) and then my keyboard had hiccups, so had to go back in today to sort it out.The thing is running great and it makes me so happy to have her around with me again. Yay computer working!

I hope it stays put and doesn't melt like my other! but if this works out, i'd say go for the reball or the new graphics card since it's a third of the price and it's really not the whole logicboard. It's the graphics card. So, if you're worried about the price, go for the 100-150 Reball. Please do your homework. Your computers are not bricks. I myself do not like that it died and think apple should recall and give us all new logicboards with new graphics cards, or better yet, NDVIA who is supplying the faulty cards.

I hope I don't have to use this forum again for this purpose but if I need to I'll update you on status.

By the way, I submitted my complaints to Apple here. I suggest everyone else do the same.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html

****... my computer just died this morning. I sent my complaint to feedback. Thought I'd share with you - hopefuly a little laugh for all of us for those of us who could use it.

Hi, I have a 2011 MBP with a 6490m GPU. It just died. It was horrific. I was playing a video on YouTube ironically of a PC review, opened up Photoshop and there it flashed before my eyes.

 

My blue screen of death. Not any regular old blue screen of death of my painful years in the green fields of Windows XP. This was a new, sadly it's not just a software issue. My computer is completely bricked. A gorgeous 2000$ paper weight of aluminium and glass into which all my files are trapped with my dreams of getting any kind of significant work done on Monday. That's too bad as I sense another 2000$ expense right around the corner.

 

Yet this isn't trully MY blue screen of death as I share this problem with thousands of other people sharing their experience on your very own message board.

I have exactly the same problem. My GPU has failed and by now I can't even boot anymore. It started several weeks ago and got progressively worse. After some back and forth with Apple Care and a guy in Executive Relations, Apple finally told me that I'm on my own. Get it repaired for 500€ (680$) or go **** myself is what I heard.

I'm so dissapointed I decided to not buy any Apple product ever again. This is the only weapon I have. I paid 2000$ for a laptop which is a really big deal for a student and after 2 and a couple of months it just dies just like my 500$ HP laptop did before. Thats just inacceptable. I used my MacBook professionally already and was planning to continue to do so for the rest of my career in IT/CS. I've been using Windows for 2 days and already know why.

But I'm willing to put up with that just to pay Apple back for their condescending behaviour. It made me feel so helpless, like they didn't even care about their customers at all. The fangirls and casual users who buy Apple products because it's cool will soon be gone as can already be seen with the iPhone. But those who are invested to use Macs professionally and do so for reliability and usability reasons are the ones that would stick around.

I now have the feeling they don't even care. I'm one of those people friends come to when they want a new computer or phone.. and I am now one of those people who will tell you not to buy Apple products because there are easier ways to throw away your money.

+1 my MBP 15 late 2011 is also dealing with this issue

I had an appointment with the genious at the apple store and he said there is nothing they can do, only change the motherboard for 500€.

This must be a joke.

Earlier i could use the gfxcardstatus to set only integrated, but once my cpu froze, had to restart it and now it crashes even when i set to use only integrated.

Dear Apple. I used your feedback form - no one even answered. Im a student writing my thesis on webgl and i cant even run anything gpu related. Was working hard to earn money on my own for a high-end laptop to serve me for a long time and this is the **** that i get.

Does anyone know the specific technical differences regarding the graphics processors and logic boards by model?  For example would buying  a new MacBook Pro now assure me that I am not getting the same grahics card / logic board combo that is failing on my Early 2011?  (I've no intention of buying a new MBP)  Or perhaps better question when did Apple, or has Apple stopped using this hardware?  Are those with a 2012 "safe"?

Peter DiSalvo wrote:

 

Does anyone know the specific technical differences regarding the graphics processors and logic boards by model?  For example would buying  a new MacBook Pro now assure me that I am not getting the same grahics card / logic board combo that is failing on my Early 2011?  (I've no intention of buying a new MBP)  Or perhaps better question when did Apple, or has Apple stopped using this hardware?  Are those with a 2012 "safe"?

everymac.com  is helpful here

Each generation of machine has incremental changes as various component manufacturers upgrade the technology, so a current machine would certainly not have the same components as the problem early-2011 units. In 2012, they went back to Nvidia discrete GPUs. But the issue here is the assembly, rather than the parts.

OK. I've been in research mode for a while now and although this may have been said in pieces, I'd like to offer this compilation of information for both affected users and for Apple employees monitoring this discussion.

1) The overall problem appears to be caused by the discreet GPU being exposed to extreme heat. Eventually, the GPU itself is damaged *or* the solder points are compromised. Either way, you get a graphics failure followed by a kernel panic.

2) Some have said that Mavericks is the cause of the heat. This may have some validity because Mavericks taxes the discreet GPU more often and therefore more heat is generated.

3) Some have said it is the amount of thermal paste and/or method Apple used to apply the paste that has led to less than satisfactory heat transfer to the heat sync.

4) Some have said that thermal paste naturally dissipates/breaks down over time and this in and of itself can add heat to the core of a MacBook Pro.

5) Some have said that the fans and airflow design are less than satisfactory to handle the heat generated by the MacBook Pro components.

6) Some have said using a MacBook Pro in a warm environment or on a surface that traps heat (such as on a bedspread, lap, wood table, etc.) adds to the build up of heat inside a MacBook Pro.

7) There is no doubt that the more heavy-duty users generate more CPU and GPU cycles that add to the internal heat in a MacBook Pro (or any computer for that matter).

I believe all the above contribute to the premature failure of the MacBook Pro graphic systems. Your combination may be different, but the result is eventually the same.

So, depending on how "hard" you drive your Mac cumulatively will determine when (or if) your MacBook Pro will fail with this issue.

WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT?!

As Apple, and most other manufacturers these days, do not work at a detailed level of compoents on a board, the "repair" is to replace the entire logic board. Yes, it is overkill, but it is the only way to handle mass produced products. (I remember TV and stereo repair shops.  Notice how they have virtually disappeared...)

The question is why consumers are being asked to pay for what ultimately is an inherent design flaw. I doubt Apple could have tested to prevent this up front, as it took approximately tow years of average use to start to see this manifest itself. But, at some point they will have the evidence they need to call this a PROBLEM.

Although my faith is shaken right now, I still have belief that Apple will get to a tipping point here and take care of their users.  Apple used to "listen" faster, but I also understand that they need to be fiscally responsible before handing our shareholder "money".

POSITIVE ACTION!

We need to continue to promote new people to submit their issues through channels, use this discussion form productively and TAKE GOOD NOTES on each of our cases. A Genius told me the notes I showed him will be my saving grace. YMMV.

My own two cents...

1) Re-applying thermal paste would possibly reduce heat generation, but it is not sanctioned by Apple and would likely void warranty *or* any special program by Apple.

2) Reflowing (remelt existing solder to get rid of fractures and cold joints) would possibly "fix" graphics, but it is not sanctioned by Apple and would likely void warranty *or* any special program by Apple.

3) Reballing (replacing the solder points) would likely "fix" graphics, but it is not sanctioned by Apple and would likely void warranty *or* any special program by Apple.

4) Replacing the logic board would certainly put you at ZERO on the damage done by heat meter, but if the logic board design hasn't changed, you may end up hitting the same thermal threshhold and need to repeat the process.

Now, perhaps, just perhaps, Apple figures this out and they do a modification to the logic board production, such as: (a) change the GPU to a model that produces less heat, (b) use better heat sync components, (c) change fans to move more air, and/or (d) use different solder that doesn't break down. Then replacing the logic boards might be a permanent solution for us unlucky soles with these dead/dying MacBook Pros.

Thoughts?

For now, I am begrudgingly running my hobbled MBP in INTEGRATED GRAPHICS mode without any problems. Yes, it stinks, but I am not out any money and I don't lose my machine for days on a repair that will likely fail again.