Q: 2011 MacBook Pro and Discrete Graphics Card

Day 3 of running on *discrete* graphics only, with switching turned off via Energy Saver (*not* gfxCardStatus).

Still not a single glitch. No reboots, though, only sleep.

Orcinus wrote:

 

Day 3 of running on *discrete* graphics only, with switching turned off via Energy Saver (*not* gfxCardStatus).

Still not a single glitch. No reboots, though, only sleep.

In my experience it's the switching that causes crashes...

But unlike your experience running discrete only does cause glitches/artefacts for me, but as I mentioned earlier (not sure if in this thread) swiping between spaces seems to reset that part of memory and the glitches go away. Sometimes for a few minutes other times for hours.

Just like you i'm avoiding reboots. The last time I shut down on power up the gray screen with the apple logo was completely messed up. Took a few reboot attempts to get it to start.

In my experience, and looing at how different it happens for several people, it's - depending on how bad a maschine is affected - more or less random.

I found no pattern to when it stops working, and when it suddenly start to work again. Several successive boot tries were just at the right time when it suddenly started to work again.

It didn't matter if I tried and tried and tried, or just let it sit there and tried a few days later.

The likelyhood of getting it to crash is higher with heavy useage (= higher thermal stress), but not recovery seems very random.

Mine is running, as of 15minutes ago, mavericks. Let's see if it's better with it.

I've found that holding down option on boot up allows me to boot even with the grey lines issue.

Option? As in, invoking the boot disk menu and choosing the Mac OS disk makes it boot?

As opposed to just defaulting to it without the boot menu?

That's weird, but kinda intriguing... Maybe the boot menu forces a switch or a power state change or something.

That's exactly what appears to happen.

That doesn't work for me. Can't get anything out of mine. Black screen most of the time, sometime with a chime loop, and the occasional epileptic show.

That has not been the case with me - doesn't change the chances of a successful boot.

Also, FWIW Mavricks doesn't improve it either. Mine was working great for almost a week but then tanked again Sunday.

I wrote Tim Cook a letter and had a corporate relations exec contact me today - scheduled to speak with a tech mid morning tomorrow - hopefully something good will come from it - or atleast another data point for Apple on this issue.

I've been running 24 hrs now without a crash. Fingers crossed. Here's the workaround I did to get my Early 15" 2011 MBP to be stable (so far):

1.) Changed the EnergySaver/Automatic Graphics Switch to OFF

2.) Installed smcFanControll and upped the LEFT fan to 4500 rpm

Max heat is now no higher that 198° F -- even with DxO running full blast.

Max rpms are reported at approx 6200

My theory:

Apple never envisioned that people would use their laptops as their primary machine. I am a heavy graphics user (Photoshop, DxO Optics Pro, Photomatix, Lightroom, etc.) and my machine always got pretty hot (especially on the left side) but I never really gave much thought to it. Companies like DxO like to suck up every bit of RAM, threads, and disk they can get their hands on, so these apps were really designed for super powerful desktops. The MBP with 16Gb RAM and I7 chip actually perform reasonably well. However, it is now clear that Apple's engineers never envisioned such a workout on their laptops and we have slowly been "frying" our machines with such usage. Why everything happened suddenly after two years of flawless usage is anyone's guess. But I'm now convinced that many of my blue screens/grey screens/black screens were due to overheating, particularly of the GPU.

Curious what others think.

Michael

P.S. as you might guess: my battery life now ***** big time. Hardly the same machine I bought two years ago. Sad.

MJSfoto1956 wrote:

 

My theory:

 

Apple never envisioned that people would use their laptops as their primary machine.

That theory doesn't really hold water. If it were true, they wouldn't have designed it to run an external display as a second screen. The DisplayPort (now Thunderbolt) would be only for driving a projector.

Also, people have been using their MacBook Pros - and before that their Powerbooks - for video editing for nearly 15 years. When I learned Final Cut Pro, the instructor taught the class using a Powerbook.

MJSfoto56:

Interesting theory. I'm going to take a crack at your suggestion, installing fmcFanControl and we'll see what happens (in addition to trying unchecking the EnergySaver/Auto Graphics box).

However, two comments:

(1) Since I continuously use a second monitor, I don't know if I can avoid using discrete graphics...I guess I'll find out pretty quickly.

(2) But more importantly, you said "Why everything happened suddenly after two years of flawless usage is anyone's guess." Just a slight correction to your assumption: My issues started roughly 18 months ago after I had been using the new machine for roughly 6 months. My own 'sudden' interest is related to discovering this thread after seeing on AppleInsider that others were experiencing the SAME issue I previously thought was just a 'bad luck of the draw' for me (i.e., getting stuck with a lemon of a machine). My point: Don't assume that just because there are now so many people talking about this that everything was working "flawlessly" previously. It wasn't (at least for me) as this has been a long-time problem.

Regardless, thanks for sharing your theory. Since Apple hasn't done anything about this issue, I appreciate you taking the time to share your thinking...we'll all be grateful if it turns out you're on to something here.

By the way, I've taken some pics of what my screen looks like after the pixelization/lines/etc. arrive and cause my system to freeze. Anyone who wishes to compare or see what this all looks like (Apple, are you listening???), just let me know and we'll see how I might be able to share those pics.

Hi,

Just a follow up.

Apple changed the motherboard on my 2.3 I7 17" mbp (with AMD Radeon HD 6750M / Intel HD Graphics 3000). Everythings back to normal and I am 500 € lighter

I really question myself about the "apple should replace this free" approach. My computer worked perfectly well for 27 months. Things do wear off and that's it, no ?

Everythings back to normal and I am 500 € lighter

Where in Europe is that if I may ask? Mine is still being "analyzed" by Gravis. If I had sprung for a direct Apple repair my appointment at the Genius bar would have been tomorrow (which is really ridiculous).

I really question myself about the "apple should replace this free" approach. My computer worked perfectly well for 27 months. Things do wear off and that's it, no ?

Well the point is: If this is a work maschine there will usually be a depreciation and tax deduction and in Germany that will have to be over 3 years so that is the least amount of time you will be expected by law to use a particular device for work. And I certainly expect to being able to use a device for at least that long and then sell it after or keep it as a fully working backup machine, for a device that's only been on the market for 2 and a half years that's obviously not the case.

mafois2005 wrote:

I really question myself about the "apple should replace this free" approach. My computer worked perfectly well for 27 months. Things do wear off and that's it, no ?

In principle, I agree that nothing lasts forever and eventually these computers will just be old.  But where do you do draw that line?  Apple sells AppleCare as a 3-year extended warranty service, which I see as a pretty clear indication that they expect their computers to last at least this long on average - it wouldn't be in their financial interest to cover  repairs for computers that are expected to fail within the warranty period.  Similarly, many of the prior replacement programs (for known issues with GPUs, batteries, etc.) have provided service to affected users until either 3 or 4 years after the date of purchase.  So I'd suggest that, based on these two things, Apple thinks their computers should work for 3-4 years.

Some people have experienced these GPU issues since mere days or weeks after purchase, many more within 18-24 months.  That's well under that 3-4 year lifespan.  And there aren't a lot of parts - even inside a laptop that gets heavy use - that should fail in so little time.  Mechanical hard drives are usually the first thing to go, after a couple of years.  Sometimes other mechanical parts like fans or optical drives fail after a few years due to use, and batteries wear out over time.  But the static parts (like logic boards, RAM, GPUs, etc.) should be incredibly robust and have a much longer lifespan.  A GPU chip or logic board shouldn't fail after a few weeks or a few months or even a few years.  To see that these graphics problems have plagued users for so long would indicate an endemic problem with the product line that makes these laptops prone to GPU failure.  And then I would argue that yes, Apple should repair them for free - at least until 3-4 years after purchase, like they have with other GPU issues.

Apple should recall the whole unit and replace it with the new retina display MBP to avoid returning back same issue after replacement of Logic board.

that is cool!