Q: 2011 MacBook Pro and Discrete Graphics Card

jmc53 wrote:

 

paigoomein wrote:

 

If that is the case, wouldn't the reball eventually have the same issue?  If I recall correctly, aren't most of the reballers are also using lead-free solder?

 

ps3specialist says this on pg. 313.

 

----------

ps3specialists Apr 29, 2014 3:22 PM

in response to jebedias

"...most reballers use leaded solder and they try to convince people that its better, I use leadfree just like the manufacturer and its proven to have the best result , Of course leaded solder is cheaper and easier to work with because it has a lower melting point but I care more about how long my repair will last and in that leadfree solder is the better choice in addition to its main feature as an environmentally safe material."

----------

Don't believe what other people say or claim! LOOK IT UP ON THE WEB YOURSELF (And avoid being wrong!!!)

PS3specialist uses lead free solder! As do all commercial companies because these companies need to comply with the Hazardous Materials Directive. But a small independent REBALLER will use lead free solder because they can, and understand the materials science behind why leaded solder is better in this situation (Sadly PS3 specialist doesn't!)

There are lots of articles about it, some referenced earlier in this thread. Like this one: http://www.magazines007.com/emag/pub/SMT-Sept2013/fscommand/SMT-Sept2013.pdf

Leaded is better, but DO NOT TRUST ME, check yourself!!!

jmc53 wrote:

 

paigoomein wrote:

 

If that is the case, wouldn't the reball eventually have the same issue?  If I recall correctly, aren't most of the reballers are also using lead-free solder?

 

ps3specialist says this on pg. 313.

 

----------

ps3specialists Apr 29, 2014 3:22 PM

in response to jebedias

"...most reballers use leaded solder and they try to convince people that its better, I use leadfree just like the manufacturer and its proven to have the best result , Of course leaded solder is cheaper and easier to work with because it has a lower melting point but I care more about how long my repair will last and in that leadfree solder is the better choice in addition to its main feature as an environmentally safe material."

----------

If you go for a reball, go for lead instead of lead free.

Poste this on page 413:

About lead vs lead free, I've read many papers about advantages/disatvantages for both types.

As with statistics, they prove both to be good....

Off the record however.... And don't forget the main part for both is tin.

Maybe also read this:

http://www.ecnmag.com/articles/2011/12/was-lead-free-solder-worth-effort

"2. Lead-free assembly is less reliable than lead-based assembly. The E.U. environmental commission admits this point. That's why they grant exceptions for military and high-reliability applications that still use SnPb solder. (Ref. 3)"

Lead freen also grows Tin Wiskers, creating shorts or other effects. Read here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whisker_(metallurgy)

And that is the reason to go for a lead instead of lead free reball.

Forget whatever PS3 specialist wrote about using lead free.

Again, I don't doubt his work, he does a good job on it probably.

But on some things, I just don't agree with him.

Another advantage, but not the main reason, is you can rework at lower temps.

You get my vote!!!

lead free, environmentally safe, this is true.

serious subject too often ignored and overlooked.

just saying...

josepiedaly1122 wrote:

 

rridder wrote:

 

jmc53 wrote:

 

Hey Calvinogood,

 

Thanks for the prompt reply. I won't be paying Apple another dime!

 

Is there a way to actually reach OSX, install gfx card status, and disable the discrete card?

 

I can't get past the white/blue screen and crazy fans spinning on startup...

 

Yes you can, I had the same problem.

 

1. Let your macbook complete its failed bootup complete with whirring fans (when you have white screen).

2. Go through boot login procedure blindly

3. Wait appropriate time for login to complete

4. Remove power adapter cable (this steps seems to force computer to default to integrated graphics)

5. Hold down power button for five seconds to force power off.

6. Press power button and reboot normally on integrated graphics.

 

After that you can download and install gfxcardstatus. I've also removed my kext amd drivers from the usr/system/lib folder in this way it's not going to the discrete at all. I've been using after effects and photoshop on the integrated graphics now, it's runs a lot slower but a least i can work.

 

Hope this will work for you.

How do you complete step 2? I can't see anything? No idea where mouse is.

This method never worked for me. Basically you have to move all the discrete graphic extensions out of the folder and into a new one (that you create) in order to trick the computer to not use the discrete card when it boots up.

It took me about five times before it eventually worked. Now my screen is very slow and choppy but looks extremely crisp. Maybe because I had not noticed the discrete chip failing for so long. Anyways, I am able to at least backup my HDD now.

<Link Edited By Host>

You can disagree as you like but I challenge any one uses leaded solder on a MacBook and his repair lasts more than 60 to 90 days at the most and are you all trying to say that using leaded solder will give you more than three years of use on a MacBook  which is a reality with most of you with the original manufacturer material?!! that is an imagination that will never be realized, leaded solder has a much weaker bond than leadfree and I decided to use leadfree after thousands of reballing with both leaded and leadfree solder and the reason is simple, the repair lasts a lot longer when using leadfree , like it or not its a reality, I don't just like to use a ten times more expensive and much harder to work with material unless it give a ten times better result so move on and discuss something else.

You don't have to agree with me either.

Only venting my opinions on it and giving info to the people doubting about what to go for.

Anyway, at least I gave some links to why to choose for lead over lead free.

Lead free also has more problems with head in pillow, tombstoning, tin wiskers etc...

http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/print/volume-16/issue-10/news/trends/l ead-free-solder-a-train-wreck-in-the-making.html

The advisory concludes with this guidance: “Though there are many alternative solder alloys available to replace traditional tin-lead, none of them has passed the reliability testing required of aerospace-quality hardware.”

The directive continues, “Until such a time that a suitable, reliable, lead-free solder replacement is identified, all program managers should ensure their electronic equipment suppliers continue to provide items which meet all performance, compatibility, and reliability requirements. Failure to do so could adversely affect the reliability of weapons systems.”

If it is better for the military, wouldn't it be better for us too? Or you gonna debate that too?

And there are more to find.

Bedtime now for me.

GN8 al.

I don't even know why you insist to discuss technical issues that you have no control over , leave that to the people who do the repairs, everyone will decide what material he can use and what warranty he can give on his repair according to his end results , as a user you should discuss the problem without getting into the technicality of it and if you can help others find the right solution for their computer problems through Apple or any other mean they see right each for his case and budget and location , as a Reballer I care about the success of my repair and its durability and I do whatever makes that better in reality not in theory because at the end the material used is just one factor among many others that determine the success and the durability of the repair like machines, techniques used, thermal profiles, the other materials used and the training of the person who does the repair because you can have all the right factors with bad untrained hand that still cause a miserable failure.

Good for you and him, send him your computer and let us know if he can fix it and how long his repair will last.

I got my computer back yesterday morning after my New Zealand authorised Apple service provider replaced the screen on my computer, as they believed that this was causing the issue.

I decided that I would wipe the computer and reinstall Mavericks, mainly just to remove clutter.

I had the computer running for about 6 hours and while I was installing Parallels 9 the computer froze up and showed a black screen. So I held down the power button and force restarted the computer. It booted up fine and was working well.

After another 2 or so hours of use the computer crashed again and this time would not start up, all I could see on start up was an Apple logo with pink bars over it followed by a grey screen and a computer that does not boot.

I called up my Apple authorised service provider and they have told me to send by computer back to them so they can take a second look at it.

Sigh... another week without my computer...

Hello everyone.  Same deal here with my early 2011 17in MacBook Pro.  They replaced the logic board after the issue started just barely before my extended Applecare expired.  The new logic board got the exact same GPU issue just before the 90 day warranty expired and I'm not running on the third one as we speak.

What I do NOT want to have happen is this fail again.  However, after reading through this thread I think I'm dealing with a ticking timebomb and it's only a matter of time until it does fail again.  I also do NOT want it to fail right after the new 90 day warranty period expires and have Apple try to stick me with the bill for yet another faulty GPU logic board replacement.

Does anyone have any advice on a good way to stress-test the GPU to see if it will fail again?  I thought of doing this after the first repair but I feared it would only succeed in making it fail sooner, but after the warranty repair expired.  This time I want to go for broke and see if this thing is really fixed which I'm highly skeptical of.

Any advice?

Correction --  Where I said "... I'm not running on the third one as we speak." I meant to say " ... I'm now running on the third one as we speak."

Wow, no editing of posts anymore?  Way to downgrade the boards, Apple like you downgraded Quick Look for Mavericks to not work with many video formats.

Sigh...

After 3 years of heavy use, my primary MacBook Pro’s (early 2011 with 1920x1200 glossy display)  GPU started failing in the same way as described in this thread.  It started showing occasional glitches a month before my Applecare Warranty ended its 3 year run. 

Since it was my primary work computer, I couldn’t afford the downtime of having it repaired since I did not have an equivalently powerful backup laptop to use.  So I let the warranty lapse, hoping the Mac would last long enough to be replaced by Apple’s newest laptops this fall.

Lo and behold, the GPU completely failed a month later, forcing my hand. So much for wanting the newest laptop.

Instead of being able to buy Apple’s top of the line new Laptop this fall, I had to buy the current top end MacBook Pro 15 Retina Display custom built with the best CPU  to be my primary work laptop. And I transferred my apps and data to the new 1 TB PCie SSD using Migration Assistant.  Migration Assistant worked excellently.  Only a few apps tracked the hardware it was on.  I had to re-activate them.    The rest of the apps worked perfectly.

Before getting the MacBook Pro repaired, I removed the second SSD and placed back the DVD drive. I kept the SSD installed in the primary drive area (realizing the risk that if Apple finds this SSD defective, Apple may take it and replace it with a regular hard drive - but I knew the SSD was perfect).  I also kept the 16 GB OWC RAM in the MacBook Pro.

I then went to the Apple Store to discussed repairs for my now out of warranty MacBook with the Genius.  The Genius said they can do repairs locally at the store but they would have to charge for each part replaced.  Since the motherboard would be the minimal replacement - a USD $400 expense - I opted for Apple’s flat-rate repair program which is done at  one of Apple’s Repair Centers. 

Apple’s Flat Rate Repair Program is one of Apple’s HIDDEN BARGAINS  For a flat rate of $310 before taxes, Apple will replace ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING in your Mac that is not functioning to spec.  This includes parts AND LABOR. You won’t have to pay a tech $75 to $150 an hour for their services.  The labor is essentially free. This is a tremendous bargain. 

The flat-rate cost is a TINY FRACTION (less than 10%) of the original cost of my MacBook Pro (with upgrades including dual 1 TB SSDs and 16 GB RAM).  Imagine if BMW or Mercedes Benz offered a similar low-cost flat-rate repair for their out of warranty cars where literally every part of the car that was not working up to spec would be replaced - including the engine and transmission, brakes, tires, rims, doors, windshield, stereo system, etc. etc.  Essentially you get a new car  after the repair is done. Use the term Refurbished if you want but a Refurbished Mac works just as well as a new one.

For those who are told that Apple won’t work with their machine if too much of it is modified with 3rd party hardware, realize that Apple is simply trying to avoid liability if it accidentally damaged the 3rd party hardware - particularly if that hardware is irreplaceable.   People who modify their Macs need to keep the original parts in safe storage so that the Mac can be restored to its original state.  That is only common sense.

I took my MacBook Pro 2011 in on Monday.  It was repaired by Thursday. This was a surprisingly fast turn-around.  It will now do duty as a server and backup to my new MacBook Pro 15 Retina Display - though what I miss the most are the dual internal SSDs which were extremely convenient for doing backups and off loading storage to give the startup drive as much space as possible for fastest performance.  I love, however the raw speed of the new 1 TB PCIe SSD.  I just attach an external SSD via USB 3.0 to the new laptop via velcro to the back of the screen- not as convenient but it works.  I have done that for years with my MacBooks.

Apple replaced:

1) the logic board and GPU.  The CPU is the same custom top of the line 2.3 Ghz Intel Core i7 from 2011.

2) the whole display and aluminum shell - with the same glossy high density LED screen after finding problems with the video (it was showing vertical lines unrelated to the GPU).

3) the RAM with the maximum spec of 8 GB.   Apple returned my 16 GB OWC RAM to me. 

4) the Express Card Cage.  The original’s cables were found defective.

Apple further gave me a 90-day warranty to make sure the MacBook Pro 17 2011 is working. 

For those who expect Apple to repair FOR FREE their out-of-warranty Macs:  this will never happen. This is wishful thinking.  This is a bad attitude of entitlement.

In 2011 Apple sold 2.75 million laptops.  About 200,000 of these were the MacBook Pro 17” model. About 100,000 were the early 2011 model.  Obviously Apple has not declared a recall because the vast majority of the MacBook Pro 17” early 2011 model are not affected by the GPU defect.  Nor were there many complaints about problems with the late 2011 model which only had an incremental update to the GPU. 

Even for Apple’s free replacement programs - where Apple determines that a product is defective - the free replacement is only good for a limited time. Generally, this  time limit is the same as an AppleCare Warranted product.   For example, for the Graphic Card Replacement program for the Mid-2011 27-inch iMac, Apple will only replace the graphics card if the iMac was brought in within 3 years of the original sale date of the Mac. 

When a product is out of warranty, it is common sense that in the absence of a recall, the owner of the product bears the responsibility for repair.  For example,  what BMW owner expects BMW to repair their car for free after the 50,000 mile warranty has expired? Nobody.  BMW owners  (and car owners of other brands) EXPECT to pay for the repair. It won’t come for free.  BMW repairs are very expensive.

I’m pretty happy with how it turned out.  The repair turn around was surprisingly only 3 days.  The techs at Apple closely examined my MacBook Pro and repaired it at a high level similar to how Lexus’s mechanics always try to repair to perfection.  I did a similar flat-rate repair for my MacBook Pro 17 2007 when it was out of warranty. It is still going strong.

So now I have two top-line MacBook Pros.  The 2011 I will use as a backup in case problems occur with the 2014 primary laptop.  Nice.

First Post on the subject... Just collected my MBP from local apple store - replaced main logic board... out of warranty 400 uk pounds. store manager had no comment on 6000+ posts or 600,000 views on this thread...   the grafics issue had developed over 1 month from what appeared at first to be just tearing at the bottom of a Browser window to the full on grafics crash as described perfectly in this thread.  When i took the MBP in initially the Genius based on my description immediately said the logic board needed replacing. no discussion...  now here we are with "new " logic board and the browser window is still tearing...

Mine is late 2011.....dead after 2 years. You are wrong to think the late 2011 was any better...... just maybe less of them were sold overall.

Apple's flat repair program is only available for US customers.

Why should we not get a free repair for a machine that is obviously with a common fault? Good luck with your new MBP & hope you never have to replace anything on it once the Applecare runs out as now due to the construction repair is even more costly.