Q: 2011 MacBook Pro and Discrete Graphics Card

Denisism wrote:

...Does anyone have any advice on a good way to stress-test the GPU to see if it will fail again?  I thought of doing this after the first repair but I feared it would only succeed in making it fail sooner, but after the warranty repair expired.  This time I want to go for broke and see if this thing is really fixed which I'm highly skeptical of.

 

Any advice?

There's a couple suggestions at bottom of the page below and lots of other good information on this issue.

<Edited by Host>

Marianco1 wrote:

 

.....For those who expect Apple to repair FOR FREE their out-of-warranty Macs:  this will never happen. This is wishful thinking.  This is a bad attitude of entitlement...

http://www.cultofmac.com/77814/is-apple-guilty-of-planned-obsolescence/

I'm not a user, I do repairs.

Have an electronics degree. In a previous life designled pcbs, worked in the pcb industry doing quality control.

And did masses of soldering back then.

The thing is, you claim lead free reballing is the only way to go.

Only want to inform people what me and professionals think about the matter.

ps3specialist wrote:

 

the success and the durability of the repair like machines, techniques used, thermal profiles, the other materials used and the training of the person who does the repair because you can have all the right factors with bad untrained hand that still cause a miserable failure.

Totally agree on that one.

In fact, didn't I write I don't doubt your work?

I am very confident people sending in their laptops to you, in fact never said they shouldn't, wil be served very well..

But for those living to far to use your service but finding reballers close by using lead instead of lead free don't have to be affraid for it.

In the end, the technician's experience, workflow, material, used rework station/technique but more of all understanding how to use it is more important. (think I wrote that long ago allready too)

Guess technician's use whatever they have best success with and trust.

And keep stubborn on that...

Anyway ps3specialist, should we ever meet each other irl, hope you buy me a bear instead of smashing in my head ;-).

I'll buy you one back....

Marianco1 wrote:

 

When a product is out of warranty, it is common sense that in the absence of a recall, the owner of the product bears the responsibility for repair.  For example,  what BMW owner expects BMW to repair their car for free after the 50,000 mile warranty has expired? Nobody.  BMW owners  (and car owners of other brands) EXPECT to pay for the repair. It won’t come for free.  BMW repairs are very expensive.

 

 

If the problem with the BMW was a DESIGN flaw, of course the BMW owners would EXPECT the repair to be FREE. That's why you pay extra for an expected quality. When so many machines break it's not a problem with the user.

Marianco1 wrote:

 

 

 

For those who expect Apple to repair FOR FREE their out-of-warranty Macs:  this will never happen. This is wishful thinking.  This is a bad attitude of entitlement.

 

If you call not wanting to be deceived and swindled by Apple entitlement you’re just the kind of costumer every company wants: pay up and shut up. Congrats.

Don't believe what other people say or claim! LOOK IT UP ON THE WEB YOURSELF (And avoid being wrong!!!)

 

 

Off topic, but that is a pretty funny statement!  There is a prodigious amount of misinformation on the web and anyone can find any amount of data to support their own views.  Confirmation bias rules. It is a Web Of Lies!   Now, back to the scheduled program.

Sorry if this was covered, but will something like this influence the work of my integrated card?

[quote]

1. Reboot Mac and enter to the Console mode (Command + S before gray screen appear)

2. mount -uw /

3. create folder example /_temp
4. move ale AMD folders (files) to folder you created
sudo mv /System/Library/Extensions/AMD*.* /_temp

!!!! 5. Execute command:
sudo kextcache -v 1 -m /System/Library/Caches/com.apple.kext.caches/Startup/Extensions.mkext /System/Library/Extensions/

This will rebuild kexts cache which won’t contain AMD drivers kexts

6. restart your Mac using – sudo reboot

7. Start your Mac normally – Mac should use only Integrated Graphics Card now and it should boot always using integrated gpu.[/quote]will end up

Or it will move the drivers and I will end up with lagging windows and crazy colors?

Some observations on your post which may take the shine off that apple you seem to be furiously polishing.  With the caveat that I, too, have had a positive experience with the company and won't be turning my back on them anytime soon. That said...

Marianco1 wrote:

 

After 3 years of heavy use, my primary MacBook Pro’s (early 2011 with 1920x1200 glossy display)  GPU started failing in the same way as described in this thread.

Many complainants on this thread have had their machines fail due to this issue well shy of the three year mark.

 

 

Apple’s Flat Rate Repair Program is one of Apple’s HIDDEN BARGAINS  For a flat rate of $310 before taxes, Apple will replace ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING in your Mac that is not functioning to spec.  This includes parts AND LABOR. You won’t have to pay a tech $75 to $150 an hour for their services.  The labor is essentially free. This is a tremendous bargain.     

I haven't investigated this in my native Australia but some posts indicate that this bargain is only available in the US and many of the users here are elsewhere in the big, wide world.

 

For those who expect Apple to repair FOR FREE their out-of-warranty Macs:  this will never happen.

         

Yes it can. They did for me and some others on this thread.  It depends on how you approach the problem, who you deal with and whether you have good consumer laws in your country.

  This is a bad attitude of entitlement.

 

No. It's an expectation that a premium machine will last for a reasonable period of time, outlasting a warranty period.  And that when a plethora of virtually identical symptoms occur in a specific generation of machine, the manufacturer will accept that there is an endemic problem and be honourable enough to acknowledge it and assist in remedying it.

In 2011 Apple sold 2.75 million laptops.  About 200,000 of these were the MacBook Pro 17” model. About 100,000 were the early 2011 model.  Obviously Apple has not declared a recall because the vast majority of the MacBook Pro 17” early 2011 model are not affected by the GPU defect. 

On what data do you base that assertion? It's a total assumption on your part: some people don't complain; some accept the failure and buy a new machine.  You may use sweeping statistical inferences to make a point and so can I: The 6000+ posts here obviously don't correlate to 6,000+ disgruntled owners, but many of them will have contributed to another website (unnamed for fear of this post being removed) whose individual names total over 5,500. I read that 1 in 26 people complain. That would suggest their are 143,000+ problem MacBook Pros out there.  That is all as unverifiable as your "vast majority", but makes the point.

Additionally, most of the complainants here have 15" machines, if you read all the posts.  In fact, when I took my ailing 17" Pride-And-Joy to the Apple Store, the Genius - who professed to being aware of the issue, or at least the reporting of it online - asserted that it was only affecting 15" machines, as the 17" had a different logic board and chipset.

Even for Apple’s free replacement programs - where Apple determines that a product is defective - the free replacement is only good for a limited time. Generally, this  time limit is the same as an AppleCare Warranted product.   For example, for the Graphic Card Replacement program for the Mid-2011 27-inch iMac, Apple will only replace the graphics card if the iMac was brought in within 3 years of the original sale date of the Mac. 

Again, where is your source for this assertion?  Giving an example does not make it the rule.  Apple recalled five year old iPods about three years ago and there are other examples of recalls outside Applecare limits.

When a product is out of warranty, it is common sense that in the absence of a recall, the owner of the product bears the responsibility for repair.     

Agreed.  If the failure is an isolated incident. But this is a widespread issue for which we are seeking a recall.  Have you actually read this thread in detail?

The techs at Apple closely examined my MacBook Pro and repaired it at a high level similar to how Lexus’s mechanics always try to repair to perfection.

I'm sorry, what?  Were you observing the repair being undertaken?  How could you possibly know it was repaired "at a high level"?  We have numerous accounts here about misdiagnosis, repair or replacement of parts unnecessarily, and more than a sneaking suspicion that logic board replacements have been done with second-hand stock.

Aside from all the above, what you completely fail to recognise is the underlying technical issue which means that, in all probability, your as-good-as-new, flat-rate, Lexus-quality-repaired MacBook Pro will fail again with the same issue.

HI, if you bought your MBP in Australia, you are in luck.

here is my case so far i posted in FB:

'a great news from me. Applecare APAC offered me a free replacement of my GPU board (which quoted as 5000RMB)+labor. I just picked it up. It works fine so far. I am very happy until next round. My MBP2011 Early version and 3 months shy of 3 years and bought in Australia and fixed in China. So please do not give up, keep trying. Hope you all get same as service from Apple as I did. Thanks for all your information. It helps heaps!'

So log your case with AppleCare AU and they will help you.  Australia has very good consumer laws to cover which I only noticed while living in overseas. Good Luck.

If Apple would only offer the $310 flat-repair to all of us? (The world is bigger than just the US)

I still wouldn't be too happy about it if I were you...

If you would have read through this topic, you would have come to the conclusion that your LB will be replaced by a 'refurb' LB - and that the lifespan of the 'new' LB ranges from 2 hours to a few months tops. I am not willing to pay £416 (that is $715) to get my LB replaced by another flawed LB. If Apple can guarantee me that it will last for at least a year, I would pay for it. That is reasonable right? But no... that's not the case here.

And why should we pay if it seems to be occurring to every 2011 MBP (15"/17") sooner or later? It's obviously a design/quality flaw. This shouldn't happen to any laptop, let alone from a premium brand such as Apple. Mine showed problems after 11 months already and I went to the Apple Store to have it checked out. I wasn't able to reproduce the problem, so they have send me away without any solution - and graphical glitches continued to occur every few weeks for me.

Now I am wondering, how many 2011 MBP owners are not aware of this forum, and have just purchased a new laptop instead?

I am still hoping Apple will do the right thing, but I am losing hope since a lot of time has passed since this topic. Please don't make me anti-Apple, Apple!

Can they keep ignoring us? My prediction is that this topic will only grow, and it will always show up in the MBP section of Apple's Community Forums.

Keep posting here fellow victims, keep posting.

The problem here is that most of us are out of warranty.  If we had AppleCare I am sure that the case would've been escalated to an engineer and they would trouble shoot with you over the phone. 

I know one of my previous Macbook Pro's had lots of issue and eventually they just had to talk directly with the level 3 engineer to get a resolution.  Apple does treat people with AppleCare better than people who didn't buy AppleCare.

Maybe Apple does not care about the customers anymore and wants to sell as many computers as possible.  I would suspect if this ever got onto major tech blogs or news channels Apple would quickly start releasing press statements.

I also think Apple is waiting for more people to void their warranty by going to reballer's.  The more that are voided the less they would have to recall and fix.

I am hopefully going to pick up my Macbook today after getting it repaired for the second time.  I paid for the $310 flat fee repair because I needed to.  I am going to try to hold out to see if Apple will do anything about it but I highly doubt it.

rcloud wrote:

 

.  Australia has very good consumer laws to cover which I only noticed while living in overseas.

Indeed they do.  I believe they expect at least a six-year life-span on a premium machine like this, which I think we would all agree with. Well, most of us.

But, as you say, "until the next round", seeing we are only getting the same flawed board design again...

Hey All,

Just an update to where I am at! I've just got my Early 2011 MBP back.

Ian assessed my MBP, determined the fault to be the GPU and then Fitted a NEW GPU with Leaded Solder for the Reballing.

The total process took 3 x days from sending it off to typing this message.
So far so good, it runs cooler, boots quicker & Pro Tools is no longer sending the fans into a frenzy!

Total Spent was £170 for the Repair and £10 for postage!

I will report back on the forum in a few days / week to keep you updated.

Cheers,

Antonio
Freefall Studios

<Email Edited By Host>

This may have been discussed, but since this is such a long thread it is worth asking again: is there some kind of firmware patch that disables the GPU, at least to get past the login stage?

In my experience, the problem with moving the AMD files from /System/Library/Extensions is that it makes the computer highly unusable. The colours are off and the screen updates are horrible. Why does that not happen when gfxCardStatus is used to disable the discrete graphics? My guess, not all the AMD kext's contribute to the GPU issue and some are required for general operation. But if we can just get past the login, many of use would be in better shape...not ideal, obviously, but usable.

And as to reproducing the problem, or stress testing to see if the problem is temporarily or permanently fixed, it is surprising that by now there is not a dedicated test just for this beyond the general GPU stress tools mentioned on the Cornell site. Am I missing something? For myself, my second logic board is starting to have the problem, but it is not reproducible enough to take to a Genius for another repair. It would be great if I could spark something up, let it run, hang, and then have the machine lock up on startup at the Genius Bar.

Just some random thoughts.

Hi. I just got my first taste of this problem tonight. I was working on a Uni assignment when the screen suddenly shifted and my macbook pro became unresponsive. It took me a while to get it going again. I’m backing everything up right now. I’m worried that as soon as I start working on my assignment the computer is going to crash. It’s such bad timing. My assignment is due on Monday!

This is my first apple computer and, up until now, I’ve absolutely loved it. I really don’t want to see it slowly die. It’s very disappointing.

I have two days left on AppleCare. I’ll see if I can get the logic board replaced.

At the minimum log a case with Apple through (online support chat) so that you have a record of reporting the issue before your AppleCare is up.