Q: 2011 MacBook Pro and Discrete Graphics Card
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Jul 16, 2014 9:15 AMby AfterFCPXalldownhill,Yeah, you can find an Apple tech talking about how this is a known issue on this reddit thread as well (this link may already be referenced in this thread--456 pages is a lot to read): http://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/1vfyki/2011_macbook_pros_are_all_beginnin g_to_fail_23/
You've heard it before, but here it is again: I wrote Tim Cook about the issues I've been having with my 2011 MBP and got a call back from a guy in corporate who was very eager to discuss everything that's gone wrong with my computer. I spent about fifteen minutes walking the guy in corporate through the graphics anomalies, freezing and eventual death of my machine. He told me Apple would not cover the cost of repair. He then informed me that that Apple values its relationship with its customers, a notion that I think is refuted by the content of this thread.
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Jul 16, 2014 11:29 AMby Hal Feldman,**** SUMMARY OF THREAD SO FAR ****
VERSION 2 (with typos corrections and additional bonus material)Based on 450 pages of input, if you are seeing graphical "weirdness" that gets worse over time, shows a split or wrap-around screen, vertical purple lines or blockiness/noise around cursor that results in a freeze or kernel panic, you likely have this issue. The issue will likely show it self infrequently at first, making it look like it might be a software issue.
Issue Facts
1) This is NOT software related. Apple often says "re-install a fresh version of Mac OS", but that is so they can quickly circumvent having to search through potential "crud" in basic troubleshooting. An easy way to prove to themselves and you this is hardware for sure is to boot into Internet recovery mode and wait to see the problem.
2) This is an issue created with many heating/cooling cycles of your MacBook Pro (normal operation) that results in deterioration of the solder holding the discreet GPU to the logic board. Once you have deterioration, it is only downhill from there.
3) This is a design flaw since the machine produces more heat than it can reasonably dissipate.
4) Users who tax their machine on a regular basis with CPU and GPU intensive operation are more likely to expose this design fault than those who are casual users. ** This is likely why Apple hasn't hit the threshold they need to take further action.
There is a piece of software (gfxCardStatus) that IF YOU CAN BOOT your MBP can be used to try to force the use of integrated graphics (a GPU that is part of the CPU) and avoid the issue from occurring. Understand, all this does is temporarily allow you to operate.
HOWEVER, if you use an external display with your MBP, you are ALWAYS using the discreet GPU and therefore can't use this software. Also, the integrated graphics card much slower and some software won't operate (correctly) when forced to used the integrated GPU.
Apple's only official repair is a replacement of the logic board. As stated earlier, Apple's size and mode of operation does not allow them to operate on a component repair level. When they replace your logic board it will give you a "fresher" set of solder points, although some suggest these boards are refurbished which means the replacement also has been through some level of heating/cooling cycles.
Another path to repair is to use a third-party. Third parties will offer reballing (REPLACEMENT of the solder points) or reflowing (re-melting of the solder points). Both are component-level "repairs" as opposed to Apple's logic board swap and many believe better because so many users have multiple logic board swaps and failures. HOWEVER, Apple will likely not support machines that have been altered by others.
While this thread is an excellent exchange of information, it is MORE IMPORTANT to create a case with Apple and make sure your machine's serial number attached. Apple is "investigating our issue" and can only use officially registered cases to decide on a more global course of action. P.S.- The Apple Store Geniuses are the first line of defense and are at a pay-grade below where this issue is being investigated. If you go to the Apple Store, BE SURE TO CALL OR EMAIL INTO APPLE CORPORATE, so that the case is escalated and tracked.
Be respectful and take excellent notes on your case. Remember to help yourself but also help the greater cause by posting relevant information here. Apple may be slow on the uptake here, but they are carefully balancing fiscal responsibility (shareholders), their consumer reputation and ultimately (should a recall be necessary) their relationship with the company that assembled and produced the logic boards for Apple.
FYI, I am on my third related repair. So far, so good... but I am nervous.
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Jul 16, 2014 11:52 AMby evil.devil,ps3specialist wrote:
You sound like an addict to lead
I'm addicted only by knowledge, curiosity and truth...
ps3specialist wrote:
I have a good suggestion for you, tell me what product you bought in the last ten years uses lead solder
how can I know if stuff I've never opened and looked with an e-microscope use lead solder?
what I can see is that e-stuff post 2006 and RoHS compliant fell like flies for overheating issues
my old toshiba a200
macbook pro early 2011
ps3
xbox 360seems clear to me that lead-free soldering is much more delicate to overheating than lead because of the less ductility.
http://electronicsbus.com/thermal-fatigue-solder-joints-lead-free-reliability-de sign-guide/
they can remove lead from soldering alloys but also should provide a better or at least equal surrogate
without saying that removing lead cause those tin-whiskers, which no one care to answer me about which in the meantime shuts down nuclear power plants in Connecticut and kills satellites, because they can carry current until 30 mA which is enought short-circuiting small components.ps3specialist wrote:
what you should do is to go to the military guys and ask them to sell you a MacBook built with leaded solder so you can enjoy smelling lead all the time
or you can go and explain the pentagon pals and us once for all why you keep saying lead-free is better than leaded and stop dodging the question. and please tell us how can a final customer can smell the solid lead. I'm with you if you talk about the employers; but even there: isn't nowdays all micro electronic soldering made by robots? a good air recycling and a mask aren't enought? problems are in bad productive process and bad disposal.
ps3specialist wrote:
at the end you are getting your information from the internet , I am getting mine from working with it and that makes a great difference
I take information by people who makes your job, physicists and electrical engineers and I'm asking questions to you exactly because I want to learn something and asking you why things I read could/couldn't fit this situation with all the umbleness I have.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder#Lead-free_solder
http://www.kester.com/kester-content/uploads/2013/06/Lead-free-Handsoldering.Fin al_.4.19.06.pdf
http://www.ecnmag.com/articles/2011/12/was-lead-free-solder-worth-effort
http://www.hakko.com/english/lead_free/pages/ps3specialist wrote:
One last request , don't even think about buying my services because I only use lead free solder and that will not suit your condition.
strange marketing strategy... should't you convince us lead-free is better by answering our doubts?
ps3specialist wrote:
[...]tell me[...]I will not reply to you again so don't reply to me.
take a decision and keep it!
carl wolf wrote:
"but THIS is the most probable cause for the problem for the failings GPU of our MBPs!..."
Here's a hint. No, it is not.A hint? this look like you have the answer... please enlight us!
carl wolf wrote:
"but THIS is the most probable cause for the problem for the failings GPU of our MBPs!..."
No, it is not.I admire determined and committed people...
Csound1 wrote:
Lead is a poison of significant toxicity, it also one that the body retains. You may think that is just fine but (fortunately) you don't get to decide.
true. but it seems they began to use tin-silver-copper alloys which are more toxic and environmental killer
wrote:
Sorry if I missed something here--based on what you know, what is the probable cause of the GPU failure in these MBP's, and what would lead you to your conclusion?
purely genius :D let's have a laugh for once!
so guys don't say this is off topic because this became a more interesting technical conversation and people can discuss and learn something new.
we couldn't be more IN topic than this and I found this a very profitable discussionalso you all should send feedback to apple describing the issue. I've been told by the call center that a case will be open after a large amount of feedbacks!
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Jul 16, 2014 3:08 PMby bartfromantwerp,I Went to our local apple service point (switch) where i explained the problem. They claim they have never heard about this poblem before. I said: man it is all over the internet! worldwide ! Still claimed having no knowledge.
anyway they pointed me to a phonenumber where i can call apple support . Perhaps they will open a case for me They said.
in belgium there are no apple stores. Capital of europe. No apple stores. No genius bars... Sorry no genius found in belgium..
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Jul 16, 2014 3:56 PMby D3us,Saw last pages reasons for failing beeing discussed again.
For the ones that joined later and didn't read the whole thread, here's what I posted long ago about what is the cause imo.
It's probably not an internal GPU fault.
The reason is bad soldering of the BGA most likely.
Not all balls got fully liquidus or long enough TAL, not giving a 100% soldered connection.
It makes contact but is not really soldered, doesn't have a real intermetallic bond.
More "glued" instead of soldered.
Same bad soldering process can also result in "brittle" solder.
The mechanical stress caused by heating/cooling cycles, making it expand and shrink, breaks the "glued" or brittle connections.
Other possibilties are "head in pillow", can break later due mecanical stress too.
Tin wiskers, as mentioned, but less likely in this case.
And others, to much to mention.
Possible fixes: reflow, reball, replace chip (not the problem, no need imo, there can be excaptions of course).
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Jul 16, 2014 4:24 PMby ella70,I have experienced this problem the end of June. First it was my exterior Apple monitor. I bought the monitor off ebay about two years ago, so I thought it was a goner. It got reversed items on it, left on right, and right on left, split in the middle, then it went black, so I unplugged it. My computer was fine so I kept on using it. I put it to sleep several hours later. It ran fine for about three days, and then the computer monitor did the same thing as the external monitor only it also got the orange screen with blue stripes. I was not doing intensely graphic things, just researching with Safari and using preview and grab a lot checking and saving photos of things for my project. After several tries of booting I started using the option key to pick a disk, cause all I got was the white screen with a spinning ball, and it booted up. I've had the MBP for two years, bought it in June of 2012, it is the early 2011 model, with a custom processor. 8,3 i7 with a 2.3 speed. It cost me over 2300 dollars and since I have two old iMacs and a PPC G4 and an iPad mini, with no troubles, I didn't get the apple care. I also have the 750 Gb Toshiba hard disk and only 4Gb memory. It is just like it came to me, with a few added downloaded things, like Dropbox and other small programs.
I am running the lion, 8.7.5. Yesterday I called our local Mac repair, who said he was as close to the Mac genius as I was likely to find and he said they had no record of this problem for these machines. He said he would send the computer to Apple to get a new Logic board put in for $429.95. And they would guarantee it for 30 days. I told him I'd think about it.
