Q: 2011 MacBook Pro and Discrete Graphics Card

musicjon

Some people are going to fuss about "naming names" simply because ps3specialist contributes here and there are a few who argue over his methods of reballing. I personally think that it's great because it allows us to make choices and good and bad experiences should be welcome information for all.

MacBook Pro (15-inch Late 2011), OS Mavericks 10.9.4, 16GB Crucial RAM, Crucial M500 960GB SSD, 27” Apple Thunderbolt Display

Sorry to hear that. The program is called gfxcardstatus.

SSo my question is y is apple doin sweet fa about it ?

You reply is totally incomprehensible

clintonfrombirmingham wrote:

 

musicjon

 

Some people are going to fuss about "naming names" simply because ps3specialist contributes here and there are a few who argue over his methods of reballing. I personally think that it's great because it allows us to make choices and good and bad experiences should be welcome information for all.

 

MacBook Pro (15-inch Late 2011), OS Mavericks 10.9.4, 16GB Crucial RAM, Crucial M500 960GB SSD, 27” Apple Thunderbolt Display

I'm one that could argue the toss over the leaded/unleaded debate, I have my opinions garnered from fixing these things for years, off the record conversations with apple engineers who are my friends and peers who have been soldering components for decades. Nevertheless a lead free reball with a fresh GPU with an experienced operator who uses decent paste and tints the heatsink is the next best thing and still way out in front of what the current flawed, expensive and head in the sand engineering guidelines for the 2011 MBP which are the choices apple are currently providing!

musicjon wrote:

 

My Early 2011 MBP wouldn't boot past a grey screen.  PS3Specialist fixed it.  I'm a very satisfied customer.

I'd say it's more than likely you'll keep being a satisfied customer.  A few requests if you don't mind - what's the idle temperature of your CPU with no browsers/apps open and is it a 15 or a 17? Macsfancontrol for OSX will tell you, and I wouldn't mind knowing when the GPU is active what the idle temperatures for that are too, flash video in a browser will get that running or better still a GPU enabled app like photoshop, as the temperature sensor on the GPU will give a zero reading when inactive.

I know what the temperature ranges are for the usual shoddy apple setup, and post repasting by myself and lead reballing for both sizes of MBP and wouldn't mind adding your figures to my database in my head!

Shouldn't the SEC be investigating Apple over this 3-year old matter?  I mean this is a publicly traded company after all and that $100 billion cash reserve had to come from somewhere.

If everyone just started documenting things with the BBB, FTC, and SEC and other consumer advocacy groups, Apple could not hide on this issue.  Instead of asking why someone isn't doing something, start filing complaints and forming a paper trail.

One of the points that seems to get lost here is that Apple has a contract with at least one manufacturer who produced these MacBook Pro logic boards.

As with any complicated product, there are dozens of hands that are used to create the final product.

I am sure that Apple has a contract that says something like...

Produce X logic boards by Y date with a failure rate no higher than Z in order for us to pay you the contracted amount.  If any variable is missed, the vendor is punished monetarily.

For Apple to properly handle this situation, they must collect irrefutable evidence of a quality issue.  They must also decide if this is a design flaw (Apple would be responsible) or a manufacturing tolerance issue (vendor would be responsible).

Can you imagine if vendor ABC is ultimately assigned blame?!  Apple likely gets to back-bill them for this issue!

MOST IMPORTANT is that we provide Apple with all the PERTINENT data that we can. The discussion group may be helpful, but it is unofficial. PLEASE make sure to have an active case with Apple as well.

I find it more than interesting that this very discussion thread has developed into a rather technical discussion that likely has nailed the issue down to amazing levels of detail. This is the true power of the Internet.

Hal, besides your response being not worthy of a response, I'll just say that it matters not whether Apple farmed these boards out.  That's between Apple and their vendor and has nothing to do with us.  Moreover, Apple has had more than enough YEARS to gather info.

YOU should be insulted that you would even mention such rubbish.

Poor, poor, Apple.  I must have more compassion and patience with them.  There.  Is that the reaction you were hoping for?  Jeepers.

CindyBruce wrote:

 

Shouldn't the SEC be investigating Apple over this 3-year old matter?  I mean this is a publicly traded company after all and that $100 billion cash reserve had to come from somewhere.

What financial trading rules have Apple broken?

Why would the Securities and Exchange Commission investigate a claim of bad soldering?

kgm1976 wrote:

 

If everyone just started documenting things with the BBB, FTC, and SEC and other consumer advocacy groups, Apple could not hide on this issue.  Instead of asking why someone isn't doing something, start filing complaints and forming a paper trail.

When did you start contacting the BBB, FTC, SEC and others?

CindyBruce wrote:

 

Hal, besides your response being not worthy of a response, I'll just say that it matters not whether Apple farmed these boards out.  That's between Apple and their vendor and has nothing to do with us.  Moreover, Apple has had more than enough YEARS to gather info.

 

YOU should be insulted that you would even mention such rubbish.

 

Poor, poor, Apple.  I must have more compassion and patience with them.  There.  Is that the reaction you were hoping for?  Jeepers.

wow, have we read the same post ?

I don't see him bringing any excuses for Apple and trying to understand other aspects of this manufacturing defect computer that we bought and can't have the seller taking responsibility for fixing it can't hurt, it's worth sharing for discussion and debate in this thread.

carl wolf wrote:

"did you have past experience with them?" Yes, and that's the difference between us.  You've read about tin whiskers, and I've dealt with them.

It was a (half quoted) question for D3us not even related to TW who was talking about the fact that head in pillow are more plausible than tin whiskers in this specific case. Anyway I'd be curious therefore also on your experience about them. How did you find them? why is this case not suitable for soldering artifacts caused by the lead-free alloy? As I told you before I read about soldering artifacts from engineers, physics and researchers who dealt with them. what about the other artifacts I mentioned? you'd dump them all in bunch? if so why? which would you keep? why?

carl wolf wrote:

"If you're asking why tin whisker grow: nobody know!" As a matter of fact, those involved in fabrication technology do understand the situation.  There's a difference between understanding the problem, and developing the solution.  Five hundred years before we arrived on the moon, mathematicians knew what was necessary to do so.  However, the technology did not support that endeavor.  You may believe that technology develops on a linear path, but it does not.  The first time that luggage appeared with wheels was 3 years after the US landed on the moon.

So why does those same guys who landed on the moon clearly say on their website "While the precise mechanism for whisker formation remains unknown, it is known that whisker formation does NOT require either dissolution of the metal NOR the presence of electromagnetic field" http://nepp.nasa.gov/Whisker/background/index.htm? On the nasa website there's a thorough documentation of what is known and not about the subject and something tells me nasa and lockheed martin (in my prevoius post) are quite reliable sources of information, so those guys "involved in fabrication technology" which "do understand the situation" should really do some publications about what they discovered.

carl wolf wrote:

"Imagine arabic bread and baguette" No, thanks.  The effect of mechanical loading on the growth of tin whiskers is not analogous to bread crumbing.

So please tell me. You know my theory: I want to know yours because I did't find any information on the web about this subject. So if not ductility and diamagnetism what in adding lead helps to overcome tin whiskers (and other soldering artifacts)?

carl wolf wrote:

Regardless, there seems to be some confusion regarding the division of labor.  It's not up to you, or other users, to solve this problem.  That's squarely within the realm of Apple and its vendors.  It's up to end users to report the failures to Apple directly, and not via a discussion thread.

If apple would ever solve the problem they won't ever tell us how, because of the company image. Again: I want to know what's wrong because If the problem is what I think (soldering artifacts) quitting apple and buy from other expensive brand is not a solution! If I buy a computer I want to know how much it'll last so I can accordingly calibrate the purchase. If I'm sure soldering artifacts will spread around 2 years after buying any brand, I'd never spend more than 800€ for a laptop. If Apple say "ok, guys we had problem with lead-free in the past. Now everything's solved" I'd buy their products again. Are laptops becaming "use and throw" because of lead-free? 2400€ for a 2 years use and throw laptop are way too much (at least for me). How can I know if apple solved the problem? when their laptops will return to work flawlessy for 4 years at least. This will also kill the second hand market so I can't sell my old laptop and buy a new one. Despite this I already informed Apple about my problem via feedback.

I, Mr. nobody, did documented myself and I'm asking you expert if this could be, or not, the matter, providing evidences in both senses.

evil.devil, I didn't say it is head in pillow causing this, but it might be, possible option, or on some.

Only thing I am saying is that I believe it is bad solder or more likely soldering process/profile/whatever, but solder related.

Even if I doubt it, but it can be tin wiskers too.

Wheren't there problems with even the first motherboard replacements?

Who knows, if they were unused new ones, stocked and ment for replacement?

Why did they fail that fast? Maybe because they had TW growing allready?

I can not say for sure what the exact problem is, need to investigate that with special equipment for it.

Microscopes, rontgen etc....

People keep posting about software fixes or to this or that.

Only want to keep pointing out it is hardware/solder related.

But what exactly? Sorry, can't tell.

Even not after lifting chips as the solder was liquid again and might look perfect.

Tin wiskers will be gone too then.

Btw, not commenting you, or anyone else, only giving my pov on it.