G3 B&W optical drive and hard disk drive questions

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G3 B&W optical drive and hard disk drive questions

Hi, I'm new to this forum so hi everyone, hopefully someone can help me out with my query and i can help some of you with your problems too 🙂

i've got a G3 Blue & White (although it looks more green to me!) Mac tower system computer, It currently has a CD-ROM drive and I would like to replace it with a CD-RW drive. Will any standard IDE drive such as this work in the Mac? http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/91532

I would also like to upgrade/replace the hard drives. it currently has a SCSI upgrade card fitted running 3 hard drives, a 20GB and 2 10GB drives. I notice there is a spare IDE connector on the motherboard, would I be able to remove the SCSI card and the 3 SCSI hard drives and install a standard 80GB IDE hard disk drive and then re-install OS X ?

also under under the power button on the front of the unit there are 2 small buttons, the first one sticks out a little and the other is recessed into the case a bit, what are these both for?

and my last question is on the back of the computer there is a socket that looks like an S-Video socket that you would find on a TV, DVD player etc. what is that for? I have no instructions for the computer.

Thankyou

G3 Power Mac B&W, Mac OS X (10.3.9)

Posted on May 17, 2006 4:31 AM

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Answer 1

May 17, 2006 6:08 AM in response to asdigi

Download your Mac's User Manual here. http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=50122

The manual should have info on the HDs, two small buttons (restart & software programmer), and socket/connector.

Cheers, Tom

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Answer 2

May 17, 2006 6:30 AM in response to asdigi

There are two versions of the Blue & White G3. The first (rev. 1) has a solid 3-drive shelf and a serious flaw in its built-in IDE Controller. If the original 4, 6, or 8 GB Hard drive is replaced with a faster IDE/ATA drive, the Hard Drive subsystem becomes flaky and unreliable, the Mac can crash frequently, and Hard drive data can become corrupted. Some users have referred to this version of the Blue & White as the "HeartBreaker".

The second (rev 2) does not seem to suffer from these problems. It will be usually be equipped with the sheet metal shown in this article:

58193- Power Macintosh G3 (Blue and White): Additional Hard Drive Installation Options

If your Mac came with either of the Ultra2 SCSI controller cards, you are a lucky man indeed. That is a very high performance [80 MB/sec transfer rate] card sold mainly for Servers.

The small round mini-DIN8 jack that strongly resembles an S-Video jack is for an ADB keyboard/mouse, and also supports a side channel for a high-end display that was being sold at about the same time and used the ADB Bus to control various screen adjustment parameters. It is a slow multi-drop serial bus -- it has no video information whatsoever.

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Answer 3

asdigi Author

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May 17, 2006 7:19 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

thanks for the link to the manual, i will go and download it once I've finished typing this reply 🙂

yep, mine has 3 hard drives fitted all the way across the bottom like the one shown in that link so hopefully i don't have a "HeartBreaker" 🙂 they are all seagate drives and the 2 10GB drives are the same model. I forgot to say on the back it says Mac G3 Server or something similar. explains the SCSI controller card!

I was given this mac from a friends sister who didn't want it anymore as she had upgraded to a newer model so I haven't got much knowledge of mac hardware at the moment. It has 4 SD ram slots, currently has 2 x 128MB modules and I've brought 2 more 128MB modules from ebay cheaply that are the same specification as the current 2 so they should work fine and then i'll have 512MB RAM, it's runs fine with 256MB until i have quite a few programs open so upgrading to 512MB should make it better. Its a 400MHz processor with 1MB cache.

I remember now my neighbors old Mac's keyboard and mouse had that connection, i should of realized to begin with. I was originally thinking it was some sort of mac network connection as the logo next to looked a bit like a network connection.

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Answer 4

May 18, 2006 6:03 PM in response to asdigi

there is a cd drive hack for macintosh

the program is called patchburn it is a free application that modifies the cd rom ini file on the mac to make the macintosh understand your non stock cd drive and it doesn't create problems and works flawlessly i have a sony dvd-r-rw burner in my g3 b&w tower and it works just fine after running patch burn

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Answer 5

May 18, 2006 8:54 PM in response to asdigi

>"mine has 3 hard drives fitted all the way across the bottom like the one shown in that link so hopefully i don't have a "HeartBreaker""

Both the Rev 1 "heartbreaker and the Rev 2 have three drive positions on the bottom shelf.

One difference is that the Rev 2 has three separate "sleds" or carriers, one of which is that large two-story sled called the "stacking bracket". The rev 1 has a solid shelf, and all three drives are screwed directly to the solid shelf, at slightly different heights.

The rev 2 original IDE/ATA cables had two drive connectors -- the rev 1 had only one drive connector on that cable. But these cables could have been replaced or removed easily.

The real telling difference was to look at the motherboard, at the IDE Controller chip. It is behind the lower two PCI slots. On the rev 1, the part number is 646U2 - no suffix. This is the chip with the troubles. The replacement in the Rev 2 says 646U2-402 -- that one works fine.

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Answer 6

asdigi Author

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May 19, 2006 2:44 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

Mine doesn't have a stacking bracket but its not very clear how the drives are fitted, it looks like they are all on separate plates fitted to the case......

as my current drives are scsi there isn't an IDE cable for the hard disk drives, just one going to the cd rom drive.

I will have a look for that chip today after the postman has been as my ram hopefully will be here today and then i can install it at the same time 🙂

Thanks for telling me about the patchburn, i'll have a google for it now 🙂 then i can get a cd or dvd rw drive, probably dvd-rw as the g3 can only have 1 drive, i thought it could have 2 but the space under the cd drive is only for a zip or floopy drive.

this is some of the information from the back of the G3,

21 april 1999

9GB + 9GB Ultra 2 SCSI / CD

Macintosh Server G3

I have written the serial number down too, can that be used to tell if its rev 1 or 2 ?

Thanks

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Answer 7

asdigi Author

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May 19, 2006 3:06 AM in response to john madsen

i found several sites with the patchburn download and i think i will get this dvd writer, so with patchburn i will be able to use it to write cd's and dvd's using the built the built in writing software in os x and itunes? http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/105823

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Answer 8

EITLtd

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Jul 6, 2006 12:41 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

I have a rev 1 that I put a 12 gig HD in a month ago and it is running OS X.3.9, but that is not my question.
In most, there is a shelf. In this other B&W, each one of the hard drives is on a separate plate, and the screw holding it down is not a phillips or flathead or star. It looks like it is square. Anyone ever hear of a mounting like this?
There are 2 SCSI drives in slots 1 and 2 that don't mount; could that be a bad PCI card? The ATA drive is only a 6, which is why I trying to replace it.
Has anyone else had problems putting in a larger drive?

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Answer 9

Jul 6, 2006 7:08 PM in response to EITLtd

>"In this other B&W, each one of the hard drives is on a separate plate..."

That sounds like the Rev 2 sheet metal.

>"the screw holding it down is not a phillips or flathead or star. It looks like it is square. "

The stock screws are #1 Phillips, very shallow with almost no flat spot, and a #2 Phillips driver (with its blunted nose) just spins without turning them. Perhaps yours have been replaced with something else.

>"could that be a bad PCI card?"

It could, but bad termination or bad cables are more likely. The terminator used in the stock set-up is quite a large discrete terminator at the end of the luminous pale yellow cable. It is often taped to the top of the frontmost drive. If you have flat gray PVC cable, or no obvious terminator on the cable, it is not likeley to work that way.

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Answer 10

Jul 6, 2006 8:32 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

Hello,

I have a rev. 1 G3 that came with a SCSI drive. I needed to replace its drive with something larger. If you ever put in a big IDE/ATA drive in there DO NOT put it in the second free ATA port, that will kill your data. I removed my zip drive and put the Hard Drive in the slot under the CD-Rom. Set the CD-Rom jumper to slave and the Hard Drive to master. It works perfectly. That is the inexpensive way out. You could also buy a PCI IDE controller card, and those work great aswell.

Cheers,

Patrick

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Answer 11

EITLtd

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Jul 7, 2006 5:35 AM in response to Patrick Garcia

I have a rev. 1 G3 that came with a SCSI drive. I needed to replace its drive with something larger. If you ever put in a big IDE/ATA drive in there DO NOT put it in the second free ATA port, that will kill your data.<</div>

There is no second free ATA port. The bottom front and bottom middle are for SCSI only. However, there is a way to add a second ATA drive without losing your zip drive. See....
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/IDE/add2nddrive/

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Answer 12

EITLtd

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Jul 7, 2006 5:57 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

"the screw holding it down is not a phillips or flathead or star. It looks like it is square. "<</div>

The stock screws are #1 Phillips, very shallow with almost no flat spot, and a #2 Phillips driver (with its blunted nose) just spins without turning them. Perhaps yours have been replaced with something else.<

I received this note from an Apple Tech in Ann Arbor...
Yes, the screw is a type that apple used you have to have a t-drive screw driver to get it out.

I am not sure what a t-drive screwdriver is, but I will find out Monday when I go out to her place.

On putting in a larger than 8 gig drive in a rev 1, she said...
Yes, the Rev 1 logic bd, had a chip that won't let you see above 8 gigs. The fix is to buy a cheap ata controller and put that in by passing the chip on the logic bd.

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Answer 13

Jul 7, 2006 6:33 AM in response to EITLtd

Hi, EITLtd -

On putting in a larger than 8 gig drive in a rev 1, she said...
Yes, the Rev 1 logic bd, had a chip that won't let you see above 8 gigs. The fix is to buy a cheap ata controller and put that in by passing the chip on the logic bd.

The 8GB limit does not apply to B&W G3 models, only to the earlier Beige & Platinum G3 models as well as to some early iMac models and a few portables.

Article #25249 - Gray or White Screen After Hard Drive Upgrade

However, the rev. 1 B&W G3 models do have a problem with adding a second drive to the built-in IDE hard drive bus - adding a second drive to that bus can result in data corruption and loss on both drives.

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Answer 14

Jul 7, 2006 9:26 AM in response to EITLtd

t-drive could mean either or both of these, or something else again:

1) A T-handle screwdriver. A bar fits across the handle part of the screwdriver to put the T-shaped part in your hand. This allows you to get tremendous torque on the screw once you find the matching head.

2) Torx screws, similar to Allen (hex socket head) screws. The recess in the top of the screw is shaped like a multi-pointed star. The driver can match that shape exactly, or be one of several completely unexpected shapes, which mesh with it at several points.

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Answer 15

Jul 10, 2006 11:36 PM in response to EITLtd

There is no second free ATA port. The bottom front
and bottom middle are for SCSI only. However, there
is a way to add a second ATA drive without losing
your zip drive.

Yes this is possible if you have a rev. 2 G3, or a rev. 1 with a controller card. What i was suggesting was if you have a flaky rev. 1 and don't have the option of a controller card, and need a cheap fix. If you try to install a new drive other than the original on the onboard ATA of a rev. 1 you will have problems.

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