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geedubya Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

Hi all.  I have a Mac Pro with 4 drives installed - one as a system drive, the others for storing project data, music sample libraries etc.  They are all routinely backed up by Time Machine to a large external drive.  One of the library drives has failed and I am trying to restore it to a newly insatlled drive.  I have read as much info as I can find online, but so far, I am not having much success restoring the data. 

 

I have named the new drive the same as the previous drive, navigated to the restore point I think is appropriate and right clicked to choose the new drive as a destination.  When doing this, it starts to copy all the items but then flags up that I may need my admin password to continue for certain items.  It doesn't matter if I check the box to say 'apply to all' or just do them each separately, I put my password in and it just copies over the top level folder without any of the contents.

 

I have opened the TM backup drive and navigated to the drive to copy the files over manually, but for some folders/items, I get a message saying 'the operation cannot be completed because I don't have permission to access'.  This is fast becoming a tedious experience and not really what I expected from Apple's backup solution.

 

Any assistance gratefully appreciated.

  • baltwo Level 9 Level 9 (62,010 points)

    See Pondini's TM FAQs, for starters.

  • geedubya Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks for the reply.  Yep, already been through those docs.  Instructive as they are they, following the methods outlined didn't work for me I'm afraid.

  • baltwo Level 9 Level 9 (62,010 points)

    Ah! The proverbial missing info. Those are the best guides on the web WRT to TM, so I'm out of ideas, especially since I don't use it. You'll have to await a TM maven to pop in and give some advice.

  • geedubya Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Pondini's guides are great and probably work for most situations.  From what I can gather though, having read a few other people's opinions on attempting to restore from TM to a replacement drive following a failure, there appear to be no Apple guidelines for this. I am no tech head, just a music producer with some fantastic software instruments and a reasonable grasp of Mac stuff, but I'm guessing this is something to do with the fact that I'm not just trying to recover data as in photos or music files.  Most of my media was placed on the secondary drive as part of a software instrument installation, so I assume it gets registered in some way and that's why trying to restore it gives the system a headache.  I also assume the system has links to where files for the instrument libraries are located on other drives and that these get broken if a drive is changed.  So if you try to manually transfer files the permissions are incorrect or need verifying at a very root level.  I have lost count of the number of times I had to type my password today just to put files back at the correct folder level.  There must be a better way.

  • Linc Davis Level 10 Level 10 (169,560 points)

    I don't know whether this procedure works in 10.6. I've only tested it in 10.8

     

    Turn Time Machine OFF temporarily in its preference pane. Leave the window open.

     

    Navigate in the Finder to your backup disk, and then to the folder named "Backups.backupdb" at the top level of the volume. If you back up over a network, you'll first have to mount the disk image file containing your backups by double-clicking it. Descend into the folder until you see the snapshots, which are represented by folders with a name that begins with the date of the snapshot. Find the one you want to restore from. There's a link named "Latest" representing the most recent snapshot. Use that one, if possible. Otherwise, you'll have to remember the date of the snapshot you choose.

         

    Inside the snapshot folder is a folder hierarchy like the one on the source disk. Find one of the items you can't restore and select it. Open the Info dialog for the selected item. In the Sharing & Permissions section, you may see an entry in the access list that shows "Fetching…" in the Name column. If so, click the lock icon in the lower right corner of the dialog and authenticate. Then delete the "Fetching…" item from the icon list. Click the gear icon below the list and select Apply to enclosed items from the popup menu.

     

    Now you should be able either to copy the item in the Finder or to restore it in the time-travel view. If you use the time-travel view, be sure to select the snapshot you just modified. If successful, repeat the operation with the other items you were unable to restore. You can select multiple items in the Finder and open a single Info dialog for all of them by pressing the key combination option-command-I.

      

    When you're done, turn TM back ON and close its preference pane.

  • Pondini Level 8 Level 8 (38,720 points)

    geedubya wrote:

    . . .

    I have named the new drive the same as the previous drive

    Try a different name (even slightly different).  That can cause problems on Leopard.  I think it was fixed on Snow Leopard, but I'm not certain. 

     

     

    I put my password in and it just copies over the top level folder without any of the contents.

    I'm assuming you've navigated to the backups of the drive in question, and selected one or more of the top-level folders (not the folder representing the drive itself)?

     

    Then right-clicked or clicked the "gear" icon in the toolbar, and selected the replacement drive?

     

    If not, try it that way.

  • geedubya Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    OK, I could try giving the drive a different name, but the rest I did as described.  I could also try following Linc Davis' approach, but in the meantime, I copied all the data over manually.  I let TM backup to my second TM drive and it has assumed the replacement data drive is not the original so I now have two backups - one of the orginal dead drive and one of the replacement drive.  The good thing about having given the new drive the same name as the old I think, is that all my software instruments except one are quite happily finding their media.  If I delete the original drive backup, will TM keep trying to back it up?  I guess I should just try and see what happens.  Obviously I can't exclude the old drive as it doesn't exist anymore. Ultimately I don't want all that extra drive space being taken up unnecesarily.  Does this process work better in Lion?  I have the update, I just haven't installed it yet, having heard mixed reports about Logic's performance in Lion compared with how happy it generally seems to be in Snow Leopard.

  • Pondini Level 8 Level 8 (38,720 points)

    geedubya wrote:

    . . .

    I let TM backup to my second TM drive and it has assumed the replacement data drive is not the original

    Correct.  A new (or erased) drive has a different UUID (Universally Unique IDentifier), so OSX and TM know it's a different one, even with the same name.  Effective with Lion, you can tell it to treat it as if it were the original, but not on Snow Leopard.

     

     

    The good thing about having given the new drive the same name as the old I think, is that all my software instruments except one are quite happily finding their media.

    Yes.  Sorry, I didn't explain that after restoring to a different name, you could change the name back. 

     

    If I delete the original drive backup, will TM keep trying to back it up?

    No.  It will only back up drives it can find, and that are not on the exclusion list.

     

    You might want to leave the old backups there for a while, until you're sure you don't need them anymore.  To see the backups of the old drive, you'll need the procedure in #E3 of Time Machine - Troubleshooting.  Since it has the same name as the new one, you'll have to go by the backup dates.

     

    Then you can delete all backups of it, via the procedure in Time Machine - Frequently Asked Question #12.  Since you used the same name, however, you'll have to be careful to get the old backups via #E3, not the new ones.  If you do, it will delete only the backups of the old drive.

     

    Does this process work better in Lion?

    The only real difference is, you can tell Time Machine to "associate" the new drive with the old drive's backups.  That will treat them as if they had been made from the new drive -- Time Machine then only does an incremental backup of the changes, and new and old backups are all in the same timeline.  The procedure is a bit geeky, involving Terminal and a UNIX command, but does work.

  • geedubya Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks Linc.  I don't see any as 'fetching' but there are lots that say ' _unknown' or 'admin' as well as my username and 'everyone'.  I'm wondering if deleting the '_unknown' entry will work in the same way as you describe.  Is it worth a try or not, considering I have already moved everything manually?  I'm just curious for future ref.

  • geedubya Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks Pondini

     

    So, now I've moved everything manually, I could delete the old backup under 'Latest' but leave all the previous backups, which actually have the same name as the new drive?  I could then maybe associate these to the new drive when I upgrade to Lion.

     

    I am also tempted to try this again with another replacement drive following the method described above i.e. using a different name for the replacement drive rather than the same name.  I would really like to know if this actually works or not for future ref.

  • Linc Davis Level 10 Level 10 (169,560 points)

    Open the Info window on the volume to which you're trying to restore and uncheck the box marked Ignore ownership on this disk, if you haven't already done so. Then try again to restore in Time Machine.

  • Pondini Level 8 Level 8 (38,720 points)

    geedubya wrote:

    . .

    I could delete the old backup under 'Latest'

    No:  Latest is simply an alias to the most recent backup.   If you delete it, it won't really change anything, and Time Machine will re-create it.  You'll still have separate backups of the two separate drives. 

     

    I was just suggesting that you could delete all the backups of the old drive, to save space.  The only way to do that is via the TM interface, per my previous post.  The backups of all other drives will remain.

     

    I could then maybe associate these to the new drive when I upgrade to Lion.

    Yes, you could do that.  See #B6 in Time Machine - Troubleshooting.  Browse through it all, but you'll need the procedure in the tan box, and must be sure to select a backup of the old drive.  They'll all have the same name, so you'll have to remember the date. 

     

    That won't save any space, but then all the backups of that drive will appear normally -- you won't need the workaround in #E3 of the Troubleshooting article to see the old ones.

     

    I am also tempted to try this again with another replacement drive following the method described above i.e. using a different name for the replacement drive rather than the same name.  I would really like to know if this actually works or not for future ref.

    I suspect you'll have the same problem, because of the messed-up permissions. 

  • geedubya Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    OK, so the only way to free the space up is to delete all the old backups of the original drive - I get that I think.  It's just that the latest one is renamed Library HD 1' whereas all the original backups are named 'Library HD'.  And my new drive is named Library HD of course. 

     

    But I am confused by the fact you say I could associate the old backups with the new drive under Lion.  How can I if I delete them all?  Are we talking at cross purposes?

     

    Also, why do you think the permissions would be messed up?

    I am also tempted to try this again with another replacement drive following the method described above i.e. using a different name for the replacement drive rather than the same name.  I would really like to know if this actually works or not for future ref.

    I suspect you'll have the same problem, because of the messed-up permissions. 

     

    And what is the solution to this whole issue then?

  • Linc Davis Level 10 Level 10 (169,560 points)

    And what is the solution to this whole issue then?

     

    It certainly isn't deleting backups. I'm not sure why you've gone off on that tangent.

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