why does applying low cut filter increase the gain?

Here's an already mastered track.


When I play it with the Channel EQ insert enabled with "low cut" at about 80 Hz, it shows that it's clipping by about 4.7 dB. When I bypass the Channel EQ, however, there's no more clipping (although in the video, it turns red, but it actually says 0.0 so it's really not clipping).


Why does this happen? I would think that taking out the lower frequencies would make the overall output quieter since there are less frequencies making it through. Can someone please help me understand? Thanks!!


Video to show what I'm trying to explain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCpg8cv-lLw

Mac Mini 2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, Mac OS X (10.5.8)

Posted on Mar 17, 2013 10:32 AM

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9 replies

Mar 18, 2013 1:22 AM in response to castlljs

I made a small example illustrating the issue:

It's a test oscillator @ 50 Hz, square wave, anti-aliased. Plus an EQ with lowcut @ 80 Hz, 24 dB/Oct, 0.71Q.

User uploaded file


On the left you see the unprocessed square wave, on the right the processed wave. As you can see, the slopes of the square do really stick out. So, in this case it might better not to add a lowcut.

BUT: here's a trick to fight back: Use a phaser, set ceiling and floor to 1kHz, so no modulation occurs, 0% feedback, order = 4, +100% mix. Now you get this:


User uploaded file

The phaser skews the slopes ....

That's an old trick dating back to the days of Dolby, etc.


Best,


DaCaptain

Mar 18, 2013 3:28 AM in response to Eriksimon

Eriksimon wrote:


That has to do with the Q value and how Low cut and/or High Pass filters behave: if you have a very steep Q setting, there will be boosting "around the edges".

You are right that this can be an issue, but it doesn't have to be the cause here. There's something more subtle and counter intuitive that can change the signal level even for an amplitude preserving allpass filter.


The problem is how the level is measured. In a DAW the most important kind of level measure is simply peak amplitude, making it easy to avoid clipping. Unfortunately peak amplitude is not a well behaved or even conserved measure when using linear filters like an allpass or the low cut used by the OP.


If you had a single sinusoid with constant frequency, then the frequency response of the filter would tell you exactly how its amplitude changes upon filtering. However, if you have a mixture of sinusoids like in any real world signal, the peak amplitude of those does not follow directly from the magnitude response graph, because their phase relationship is also altered by the filter.


We can even build a filter that has a unit magnitude response, a so called allpass filter, and it is capable of changing the phase relationship of a signal in a way that influences the peak level reading in either direction. You can avoid this effect by restricting yourself to the use of linear-phase filters, which don't introduce relative phase changes. This restriction may be undesirable however, because those filters have quite a few disadvantages too.


The other way to avoid such confusing effects is to simply rely on the RMS measure instead of the peak level meter. The RMS measure is strictly preserved by allpass filtering and in general the RMS measure of the filtered signal is bounded by the RMS measure of the original signal multiplied by the RMS measure of the filter response.



So as you understand now, there's nothing broken and you can just turn the fader down a bit and everything will be fine.


Cheers,


Jazz

Mar 18, 2013 7:59 AM in response to Jazzmaniac

Thanks for all of the help. Not sure I understand all of what is being said, but it helps just knowing that I'm not crazy and that what I'm seeing happen is to be expected.


I guess one thing I wonder about is that if it doesn't SOUND distorted after applying the low cut filter, is it actually distorted then? They don't sound very different in terms of volume. However, I don't want to sacrifice the loudness by simply turning it down by a few dBs.


I guess I'll just apply a limiter and be happy with it.


Thanks for all of the responses!

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why does applying low cut filter increase the gain?

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