Q: Logic Pro Unintuitive and frustrating.

Just to add my two-peneth... There are a couple of things you should know. Logic has only been an Apple program for just over 10 years. For 10 years before that it was owned by Emagic. In all that time features have been added and added - but very infrequently, if ever, removed. For those of us who have been with Logic since the beginning that is BRILLIANT. For those coming to Logic "late" so to speak, that can be daunting. There's no easy way round that - it's Logic's compexity that makes it so brilliant. There are often 3 or 4 ways of doing the same thing. There are often many menu item you will never ever use. But that's what makes it the programme it is. The fear I share with many others is that when Logic X finally comes out Apple will address this and simplify it too much, or to be to blunt "dumb it down" - which seems to be maybe what you are after.

ProTools was created for Tape Ops and Mixing engineers who didn't like computers but realised they were going to have to start using them - it's simple. At it's core it's a Tape Machine and Mixing desk and for years it was completely usuable as a compositional tool. Ableton Live is built for DJs and EDM musicians, as is Reason. So if you want "simple", pick one of these.

The only real alternatives (on a Mac) - like for like - to Logic are Cubase/Neundo, Digital Performer and more recently PreSonus Studio One. PreSonus is a great programme, apparantly quite simple and intuative; but it's fairly early days for it at the moment. Digital Performer is much closer to Logic - but does take a slightly different approach to many things - including a different plugin format and tends to be a little niche - finding particular favour with US film composers - altough Nuendo is making big inroads there. Which really leaves Cubase. When it moved from VST to SX in 2002 it was a complete re-write of the code and it became much more like Logic. I moved to Cubase SX3/4 for couple of years in 2005/6/7 as I didn't want to buy an Apple computer and my PC version of Logic was showing it's age. It was very, very frustrating. I'm ashamed to admit I had to buy at least 3 new qwerty keyboards as they got pummeled under angry fists. But I got there - I had to, I was earning my living using it. In the end I got quite proficient at it. But in the end, when Intel found there way into Apples i went back to Logic and have never looked back.

Some days I hate Logic, with all it's silly little bugs that Apple never get round to fixing - IMO Apple have been quite an unworthy owner of Logic - I'm sure if Emagic still owned it we would be in a very differnt position. There have been a lot of major problems recently and I have considered many times moving my production studio away from Logic. But I always come back to the same problem - there really is nothing else out there that does what Logic does - IN THE WAY THAT LOGIC DOES. And that's the crux - you can use any software you want if you have to. But, ff you REALLY want to use Logic, then persevere and I promise you that one day the penny will suddenly drop - you'll have that EUREKA moment. Then you'll understand WHY Logic does the things it does the WAY it does them. But you'll only ever get to that point if you want to, apply yourself, and approach the task with an open mind.

Logic just isn't a prgramme for simpletons - and I'm not implying that you are; but consider this. When I get into my wifes car I turn the key and it just starts.. There are no more than 6 controls on the dash and that includes the radio. If I climbed into a Formula 1 car I wouldn't even be able to start the thing - let alone drive it or know what the sea of controls on the stearing wheel do - so that makes it CRAP does it? Admitedly - it might make it unsuitable to the task of going down the shops for the milk - but not crap I think you'll agree.

With all due respect, I like the fact that I can have the score window and the list window up at the same time - I read music, so for me it's great being able to select the notes I want to turn down in the score window but reduce the velocity of the highlighted notes in list view which I have open simultaneously on a single screen as well as the arrange window and inspector. Most DAWs default to the piano roll - I never use it, but that's just me. I love it that when I cut a region I can decide whether the notes that extend beyond the end of the region are shortened or not - because I know what the right answer to the question is depending on the situation and I understand what Logic is doing. I espeically LOVE that I can create a custom environment object that play 4 separate plugin instruments at once, with 1 transposed down an octave and with the mod wheel data filtered out of the last 2 - and that it takes me about 30 seconds to achieve... But with possiblities comes complications - that's the nature of it.

So I feel your pain of learning a new, complicated piece of software with a myriad of possibilites - but to be honest - toughen up! I love all of this and I don't want it taken away, or dumbed down or turned into a programme for EDM DJs. The reason I stick with Logic is that my production schedule is VERY varied and Logic, for me, is the only programme that can handle ALL of these different tasks, from remixing to production to film/ad scoring to composition to location recording ALL with equal aplomb.

So in summary, my advice would be, if you want to use one of the most powerful and popular tools available on the market to make music and you have a real reason (need) to do so - then persevere. You won't be disappointed when you finally get there - and I've no doubt that once you've really mastered Logic you'll find most other DAWs pretty simple to get around should you need to.

But, as the others have said, if you just want to hate Logic and bash Apple for the sake of it then you'd be better off spending the time learning another DAW. Honestly, the only reason to use ProTools is if you need to take you sessions to other professional recording studios or you need the ability to open ProTools sessions in you own studio - or you want to brag you have "professional" ProTools down the pub (and pay over the odds for your plugins). Other than that there is NO point. For dance/hip hop/loop based music use Ableton Live, for general production composition use Cubase or Studio One. End of story.

But please - for the most part the people on this forum fall into 2 catagories. Those who use Logic every day to earn a living and those who would like to, but don't know how to and are here asking how to; and of course we all help each other, discuss bugs, workarounds, best practises and pickup brilliant tips and advice. Some of the posters here really should be on a retainer from Apple for the job the do...

Oh, there is a 3rd catagory actually... Internet Trolls.

Here's hoping Logic X is nice and streamlined on the surface, but knarly and powerful under the hood.

Peace.

You are suffering from a self fulfilling negative convictions loop - you keep repeating the word "********" so often, making it impossible for you to look at things as they really are.

This does not necessarily make you ******** (many people do this in many situations), but it does make you a lot less intelligent. Also, using these kind of terms repeatedly could be indicative of a deepseated inferiority complex.

Mental retardation (MR) is [...] characterized by significantly impaired cognitive functioning and deficits in two or more adaptive behaviors.

The terms used for this condition are subject to a process called the euphemism treadmill. This means that whatever term is chosen for this condition, it eventually becomes perceived as an insult. The terms mental retardation and mentally ******** were invented in the middle of the 20th century to replace the previous set of terms, which were deemed to have become offensive. By the end of the 20th century, these terms themselves have come to be widely seen as disparaging and politically incorrect. and in need of replacement.

Excellent piece!

Agree!

Nice Mark, well written!

+1

Octopusy wrote:

 

Being able to select multiple midi instruments seems like something of a no brainer.  Select multiple tracks and play your keyboard.

People have been complaining about this one for years (and not just playing multiple, being able to select multiple in order to move more than one at once).  Unfortunately I don't think there's a solution, I'd love to see that changed in Logic 10 but I'm not holding my breath.  In general, you're going to get more useful feedback the more specific you are about the issues you are having.

Classic example of what happens all the time with Logic - there's so much to learn I still discover new things from the people I work with all the time...

So what you've both just described is in fact really, really simple to achieve - and it's been around since v8 I think (though it could be 9). Just select the red "R" record arm button on as many tracks as you want - hey presto! All tracks with the "R" record arm enabled will play - simultaneously, at the same time. When you hit record and start playing you'll think "aggggh, it's not working" as the data will only be appearing on one track. But when you press stop - hey presto! again. Logic puts the actual MIDI data on the highlighted track - and automatically places "alias" data (ie ghost copies of the acutally data) on all of the other tracks. When you press play it's exactly what you heard. Need to correct a mistake - just edit the "real" data track and all the others will follow. However, if you want "real" copies of the data on the other tracks - just double click an "alias" region and hit "real" when the dialogue box appears.

As with so many things Apple it's a) so badly documented you actually never get to know about it a b) so simple you don't even think to try it.

Hope this helps...

Pleasure - as to mulitple midi - see answer below. (hmm - answer appeared in the wrong place - so make that above :-O )

I know about recording, the thing that annoys me is not being able to select multiple tracks to move them.  And there's no way to do that, right?

And with multiple tracks record armed, is there a way to keep that setting locked and not lose it when you select another track?

Hi

Simply use the Scissors tool (or the Marquee tool) to cut out the section you want to keep.

CCT

What I said earlier is true.. Logic may not be for you... one thing I know for sure, Digital Performer is not for me yet I've always felt completely comfortable with Logic or Cubase/Nuendo.

Using any DAW will be a compromise, in truth... Logic is more configurable than most but it's basic design has been around for a long time. (see screenshot of Logic 5.5.1 on a PC).

What I find most attractive is Logic's sound... the combination of included plugins and instruments is the best and most creative of any currently available DAW and 9 times out of 10, I like mixes I've done in Logic over those I've done on other systems. For me, that's the bottom line, the sound.

Logic 5.5.1 (over 10 years ago) no mistaking the program is there?