Some sites time out in OS 10.4.11, work in 10.5.8

Question

Level 2

400 points

Some sites time out in OS 10.4.11, work in 10.5.8

I have two computers running OS 10.4.11, and one running 10.5.8, connected to an ADSL modem/router.

When using the 10.4.11 computers, I can get most web sites, but there are two sites, 'adobe.com', and 'support.lexmark.com', which never load, and always time-out. Occasionally I find other sites which do the same. It happens with all browsers, Camino, Safari, iCab, Firefox. I pinged the sites from the Terminal in 10.4.11, and they both responded 'no route to host' on the first packet, and 'host is down' on the following packets, 100% loss.

However, using the 10.5.8 computer, both sites respond and load quickly, and on pinging from the Terminal, 'adobe.com' returned 100% packets and 'support.lexmark.com' responded 'communication prevented by filter' to each packet, which is ok.

Does anyone know a reason for the different results between 10.4.11 and 10.5.8? And I would appreciate hearing from anyone else running 10.4.11 on whether or not you can access those two sites.

Thank you.

5200,5500,7600,B&WG3-450.iMacG5-OTHER, OS 7.5.1, 8.1, 8.6, 9.2, X.4

Posted on Apr 4, 2013 7:44 AM

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Answer 1

BDAqua

Level 10

238,949 points

Apr 4, 2013 11:20 AM in response to Phil Johnston

Hi, are you running any Anti Virus SW in 10.4.11?

Try putting these numbers in Network>TCP/IP>DNS Servers, for the Interface you connect with...

208.67.222.222

208.67.220.220

Then Apply.

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Answer 2

Phil Johnston Author

Level 2

400 points

Apr 4, 2013 4:14 PM in response to BDAqua

Thanks for your reply.

No, not running any anti-virus.

I had already tried one different DNS, and am now using your suggested servers, but this has not made any difference. The ping tests always return the same IP addresses for the problem sites, regardless of the DNS and the OS being used, ie for 'adobe.com' - 192.150.16.117, and for 'support.lexmark.com' - 192.146.101.175.

Regards, PJ.

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Answer 3

BDAqua

Level 10

238,949 points

Apr 4, 2013 4:42 PM in response to Phil Johnston

Hmmm, that is lexmark's support site IP, does it still not load if you put 192.146.101.175 in the url bar of the browser?

Open Network Utility>Traceroute tab, how far does that IPor URL get?

Traceroute has started ...

traceroute to support.lexmark.com (192.146.101.175), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets

1 192.168.15.1 (192.168.15.1) 3.228 ms 0.813 ms 0.428 ms

2 * * *

3 10.41.164.209 (10.41.164.209) 121.894 ms 71.195 ms 54.623 ms

4 64.13.115.205 (64.13.115.205) 65.275 ms 61.047 ms 65.036 ms

5 sl-gw50-sea-.sprintlink.net (144.224.113.69) 54.928 ms 70.995 ms 55.098 ms

6 0.xe-11-3-0.BR2.SEA7.ALTER.NET (204.255.168.217) 69.692 ms 56.106 ms 59.913 ms

7 0.so-7-0-0.XL2.IND6.ALTER.NET (152.63.69.113) 119.759 ms 125.903 ms 120.152 ms

8 POS7-0.GW1.IND6.ALTER.NET (152.63.68.165) 120.078 ms 109.106 ms 115.212 ms

9 lexmark-gw.customer.alter.net (152.179.88.2) 134.682 ms 123.009 ms 125.496 ms

10 * * *

11 * * *

12 * * *

13 * * *

14 * * *

15 * * *

16 * * *

17 * * *

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Answer 4

Phil Johnston Author

Level 2

400 points

Apr 5, 2013 7:49 AM in response to BDAqua

Thanks again, BDAqua.

Putting the problem sites' IP addresses directly into the browser doesn't make any difference, they still time out. By the way, are you running 10.4.11, and can you access those sites, adobe.com and support.lexmark.com?

The traceroute results are helpful :-

. from OS 10.5.8 to 'support.lexmark.com' (working in browser)

Traceroute has started ...

traceroute to support.lexmark.com (192.146.101.175), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets

1 192.168.2.1 (192.168.2.1) 10.709 ms 1.296 ms 11.103 ms

2 203.23.236.34 (203.23.236.34) 19.022 ms 21.922 ms 18.397 ms

3 core-syd-lns2.comcen.com.au (203.23.236.45) 19.279 ms 11.831 ms 16.595 ms

4 vlan551.22rrc76f000.optus.net.au (59.154.10.17) 115.309 ms 11.618 ms 35.038 ms

5 203.208.191.157 (203.208.191.157) 175.660 ms 174.232 ms 178.382 ms

6 67.17.192.141 (67.17.192.141) 180.202 ms 179.554 ms 190.632 ms

7 cw-gw.wswdc.ip.att.net (192.205.32.45) 186.321 ms 183.906 ms 177.638 ms

8 cr1.sffca.ip.att.net (12.122.200.10) 244.370 ms 250.120 ms 249.583 ms

9 cr1.cgcil.ip.att.net (12.122.4.122) 232.710 ms 250.847 ms 239.889 ms

10 cr81.ipsin.ip.att.net (12.122.152.137) 248.649 ms 248.965 ms 251.039 ms

11 12.122.152.169 (12.122.152.169) 278.113 ms 250.306 ms 259.287 ms

12 12.88.94.10 (12.88.94.10) 248.377 ms 249.069 ms 260.430 ms

13 * * *

14 * * *

. from OS 10.4.11 to a normal working site, 'apple.com'

Traceroute has started ...

traceroute: Warning: apple.com has multiple addresses; using 17.149.160.49

traceroute to apple.com (17.149.160.49), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets

1 192.168.2.1 (192.168.2.1) 6.791 ms 30.325 ms 29.338 ms

2 203.23.236.34 (203.23.236.34) 11.601 ms 11.064 ms 19.581 ms

3 core-syd-lns2.comcen.com.au (203.23.236.45) 23.240 ms 16.406 ms 16.618 ms

4 vlan551.22rrc76f000.optus.net.au (59.154.10.17) 23.686 ms 16.490 ms 16.650 ms

5 203.208.191.157 (203.208.191.157) 183.518 ms 172.550 ms 173.038 ms

6 xe-10-1-1.sjc10.ip4.tinet.net (216.221.157.157) 175.765 ms 171.659 ms 188.282 ms

7 4.68.62.213 (4.68.62.213) 182.833 ms 194.200 ms level3-10ge-peering (77.67.69.98) 184.416 ms

8 apple-compu.edge2.sanjose3.level3.net (4.53.210.46) 190.886 ms 185.874 ms 233.710 ms

9 * * *

10 * * *

.from OS 10.4.11 to a problem site, 'support.lexmark.com'

Traceroute has started ...

traceroute to support.lexmark.com (192.146.101.175), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets

1 * * *

2 * *traceroute: sendto: No route to host

traceroute: wrote support.lexmark.com 40 chars, ret=-1

*

traceroute: sendto: Host is down

3 traceroute: wrote support.lexmark.com 40 chars, ret=-1

*traceroute: sendto: Host is down

traceroute: wrote support.lexmark.com 40 chars, ret=-1

*traceroute: sendto: Host is down

traceroute: wrote support.lexmark.com 40 chars, ret=-1

*

4 * * *

So it seems that, for the problem sites, the correct IP address is obtained, but the attempts to contact the sites don't even get past my router, which has the internal address 192.168.2.1. Is this correct, and why would it happen consistently on only a few sites, when most sites work ok?

Thank you, Phil J

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Answer 5

BDAqua

Level 10

238,949 points

Apr 5, 2013 10:22 AM in response to Phil Johnston

By the way, are you running 10.4.11, and can you access those sites, adobe.com and support.lexmark.com?

Yes, but I may be using a different browser, SeaMonkey & TenFourFox.

Very strange, I wonder if it's blocked in you hosts file....

private:etc:hosts

I have a rather large one, so I womt post the whole thing...

##

# Host Database

#

# localhost is used to configure the loopback interface

# when the system is booting. Do not change this entry.

##

127.0.0.1 localhost

255.255.255.255 broadcasthost

::1 localhost

0.0.0.0 ads.adsonar.com

0.0.0.0 js.adsonar.com

127.0.0.1 123banners.com

127.0.0.1 207-87-18-203.wsmg.digex.net

127.0.0.1 AdSubstract

127.0.0.1 Garden.ngadcenter.net

127.0.0.1 Ogilvy.ngadcenter.net

127.0.0.1 ResponseMedia-ad.flycast.com

The IP in the first 4 places is where the following URLs are directed, which means those ad tracking sites go nowhere.

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Answer 6

Phil Johnston Author

Level 2

400 points

Apr 6, 2013 4:19 PM in response to BDAqua

Hi BDAqua,

You've led me into new territory here. The hosts file on one of my OS10.4.11 computers is shown below, and the other one is similar. Looks like there is no explanation for the problem here.

Welcome to Darwin!

BWG3Phil:~ phil$ sudo nano /private/etc/hosts

Password:

GNU nano 1.2.4 File: /private/etc/hosts

##

# Host Database

#

# localhost is used to configure the loopback interface

# when the system is booting. Do not change this entry.

##

127.0.0.1 localhost

255.255.255.255 broadcasthost

::1 localhost

Enquiries into the hosts file led me to information about the DNS cache, which OS X keeps on each computer, and is used first to find IP addresses for recently used sites, before going out to a DNS server, and can become corrupted. I couldn't find a way to display the contents of the cache in 10.4.11, but I tried flushing the cache to force the OS to go to an outside DNS server. I entered

lookupd -flushcache

in the terminal. The program quickly returned to the next prompt, with no messages or any indication that the cache had been flushed, so I can't be sure that it worked. I then tried 'adobe.com' in Safari, and it reported 'looking up adobe.com' briefly, and then 'contacting adobe.com', and then timed out again, so it seems that flushing the DNS cache has not made any difference.

Have also updated the firmware in my Belkin F7D1401 modem/router, and again, no difference.

Thanks for your help,

Regards, PJ.

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Answer 7

BDAqua

Level 10

238,949 points

Apr 6, 2013 5:51 PM in response to Phil Johnston

Is there a place in your Router to enter DNS numbers?

Good work btw. 🙂

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Answer 8

rccharles

Level 6

12,957 points

Apr 7, 2013 11:37 AM in response to BDAqua

There is usually a reset button on the router. Could reset it to factory defaults. Might check setting beore reset.

How are you connected to router? Cable or wifi. Could be using someones elses wifi.

Very surprising and strange.

Robert

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Answer 9

rccharles

Level 6

12,957 points

Apr 7, 2013 12:34 PM in response to rccharles

I have always wondered what these *'s meant. see wiki on traceroute.

.from OS 10.4.11 to a problem site, 'support.lexmark.com'

Traceroute has started ...

traceroute to support.lexmark.com (192.146.101.175), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets

1 * * *

They mean that traceroute did not receive a response from router 1. I guess since tracerouter sends three packets per router. It means three packets didn't receive a response.

Since you other machine gets a response, I guess you need to look further at you router.

. from OS 10.5.8 to 'support.lexmark.com' (working in browser)

Traceroute has started ...

traceroute to support.lexmark.com (192.146.101.175), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets

1 192.168.2.1 (192.168.2.1) 10.709 ms 1.296 ms 11.103 ms

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Answer 10

BDAqua

Level 10

238,949 points

Apr 7, 2013 2:01 PM in response to rccharles

Since you other machine gets a response, I guess you need to look further at you router.

Good catch, the non-working one gets to the router, but no further, which was what I was looking for, yet missed.

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Answer 11

rccharles

Level 6

12,957 points

Apr 7, 2013 4:15 PM in response to BDAqua

Traceroute has confused me. Never know what the *'s meant. My verizon router doesn't repond to the queries so I get * * * for it.

Other routers on the chain do respond when I do a traceroute. Found out there are different queries that have the same effect. Of course MS used a different quiery in it's tracert if the wiki is correct.

Robert

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Answer 12

BDAqua

Level 10

238,949 points

Apr 7, 2013 6:04 PM in response to rccharles

One thing I've observed is MS/Windows is far better at several Network/Internet things than Apple is, like getting DNS from a Router/Modem, or distinguising like SSIDs, but then thy dictated things for a long time. 🙂

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Answer 13

Phil Johnston Author

Level 2

400 points

Apr 8, 2013 4:38 PM in response to BDAqua

Hi BDAqua and rccharles,

responding to your posts since my last reply,

DNS in router - I'm not sure that OS X uses the DNS from the router, but I entered a different DNS, given by my ISP, 202.172.107.7, and it hasn't made any difference.

Connections to the router -

. OS10.5.8 Al Pbook, wireless (working, all sites)

. OS10.4.11 G5iMac, wired ethernet (problem sites)

. OS10.4.11 BWG3(G4), wireless (problem sites),

and I have also found that my old 5500/250, OS 8.6, IE5, also times out on the problem sites, wired ethernet connection.

Using another router? -

no, I use manually allocated local network addresses, and the wireless connected computers report the correct network ID and local address.

Router factory defaults - with dhcp local address, Belkin default WPA security, and no MAC address filtering. the results from the BWG3(G4) 10.4.11, wireless, are as before, ie. problem sites time out, pings 100% loss, traceroutes as before.

I now conclude that no-one else has this problem, and something in my network/router setup is blocking attempts to contact the problem sites from OS10.4.11 and OS8.6, but not from OS10.5.8. It's annoying to have to go to some-one else's computer when you come to a site which times out.

I'm now going to take my time and try different things on my network. Due to work, it may take time for me to respond to more posts, but I appreciate your contributions very much.

Thank you, PJ.

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Answer 14

BDAqua

Level 10

238,949 points

Apr 8, 2013 6:29 PM in response to Phil Johnston

Did you enter that DNS number into the G5 iMac & for the Ethernet Interface?

Network>TCP/IP>DNS Servers, for the Interface you connect with.

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Answer 15

rccharles

Level 6

12,957 points

Apr 9, 2013 9:34 AM in response to BDAqua

Conclusion: Manually configure 10.4.11 with all static info. Might bypass router recalcitrance.

I now conclude that no-one else has this problem, and something in my network/router setup is blocking attempts to contact the problem sites from OS10.4.11 and OS8.6, but not from OS10.5.8.

There is a big difference in how your router is working between 10.4 & 10.5. Notice how traceroute does not get a response from the router in 10.4 but when using 10.5, traceroute does get a response.

For what it is worth, I get a " * * * " response from my Verizon gt704wg router when using 10.4.11.

From the terminal, look at:

man traceroute.
I got the most info out of the default. Tried: UDP , TCP , GRE and ICMP

10.4.11 -- traceroute to support.lexmark.com (192.146.101.175), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets

1 * * *

10.5.8 -- traceroute to support.lexmark.com (192.146.101.175), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets

1 192.168.2.1 (192.168.2.1) 10.709 ms 1.296 ms 11.103 ms

--------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps there was a change in tcp/ip in apple's implementation from 10.4 to 10.5.

Perhaps this is causing your router to act differently.

Perhaps you need to try a different router. What a pain. No way to advise what routers are going to work and what do not.

Perhaps you should manually configure 10.4.11 with all static info.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I got a gift laptop from a neighbor. Put my copy of XP on it. did tracert support.lexmark.com. Got " * * * " from my router.

For what it is worth, I read were MS started off with the Berkley TCP/IP stack in '95.

Robert

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