Videos for Web -Compression Advice

For the users of QT 7, h.264 is the way to go.

Not certain what "but not the latest version that the above target audiences may not have" means.

You might want to try googling h.264 and you'll discover a bunch of resources.

At the last LAFCPUG, this question came up and Larry Jordan recommended something I'd never thought of (and still haven't tried).

I hope I remember this correctly. I believe he said to use File --> Export --> QuickTime Movie. Once there, leave the "make self contained movie" box unchecked. This will create a QT reference file of all your data in the Final Cut project. Having not tried this yet, this is where it gets a little hazey. I recall him saying to then take that file into Compressor or Sorenson Squeeze and compress it to your required specifications (such as dimensions and the like).

Anyone else heard of this, or am I completely off-base?

This is what I do. It always works.

1. Go to export, then Quicktime Conversion.
2. IN the format window, choose MPEG 4.
3. Go into OPTIONS
4. In file format, choose MP4 (ISMA)
5. Video Format: MPEG-4 Improved
6. Image Size: 320 X 240 QVGA
7. Frame Rate: 30
8. You're always trading off quality and size. If something's big, you
will lose some quality.
9. The DATA RATE is what you would fiddle with to get the right combination
of both. Try 800.
10. SOUND: AAC

This is what I like...

File - Export - Quicktime Compression...

Then change default (under quicktime movie) to Broadband High.

Then change the OPTIONS - Size if you need to get it to 16:9.

If you want to see what they'll look like:

http://web.mac.com/captmench/iWeb/Site/Movies/Movies.html

About 3 to 3.5 megs per minute. Depends on your frame rate.

CaptM

Good question...but complex answer. You really have to evaluate the type of video (motion, static), viewers (Internet, CD, DVD, etc.), the final size, Quicktime version (7 or earlier), needed video quality (small detail or not?), needed sound quality (stereo or mono, music or voice). Usually you end up with 2 or 3 settings that work for the kind of work that you normally do.

Use H.264 or MPEG-4 video compression, depending upon whether your viewers have QT7 or not respectively.

Frame rate can vary widely, depending upon the amount of motion in your video. If you're doing slides or lots of static video (stand-up with only someone's mouth moving), you can do 12-15 fps, while lots of sports action may require 24 fps or other high rates.

Key frames is similar: use automatic under normal circumstances, but if you have more action, or the requirement for people to move the playhead to a specific location, you'll have to set keyframes to a lower setting (create key frames more often).

Compression quality: experiment. You can use "low" for H.264 and it looks pretty good, but you'll have to go higher for mp4 to get a decent video.

Data rates: usually the automatic setting is fine, unless you're specifically creating movies for low-end computers or dial-up connections.

Set the sound settings depending upon the type of audio you have: music will have to have less compression and higher settings. Normal audio can go mulaw 2:1 compression, mono, 44.1 KHz and 16 bit.

Oh, and once you're done, check the size of the video. If you need a smaller video, you'll have to go back and adjust the settings.

I do the same as the others and agree it's the best way to get good results: FCP -> Quicktime out -> into Compressor. Under the "Web Download (QuickTime 6 compatible)" tab you can choose presets there. Make multipul changes to the preset and check your results. I work in a broadcast dub house and was in charge of internet broadcast outputs alonge with the a dozen other formats. The one thing I learned is that one preset will not work for every project. So expariment. Also, consider flip for mac, allows you to output wmv. I still have clients wanting this format... why... anyway... follow what Gary Allen3 said about adjusting perameters and you should be good to go...

I believe that Apple is not ready for us to put high/decent quality videos on the web. The only way to do this right now using QuickTime files is with streaming, which is too expensive for the average person.

I have a 7 minute video that I exported with H.264 at 204x180. The result, 22mbs. Way too big for the web. I tried a trial version of Sorenson Squeeze and it took this H.264 video and gave me a 11mbs MP4 video. Look good but who wants to spend a few hundred on Sorenson Squeeze. I've heard it's very glitchy. Not worth the money. Plus 11mbs is still kind of big.

Also take note that most people don't have H.264 so they will not be able to view your video on the web, if you go this route.

So what do you do? I'm still searching...

G5

"I believe that Apple is not ready for us to put high/decent quality videos on the web."

What?!!!! Streaming has absolutely nothing to do with this whatsoever.

You're way off track I'm afraid Kevin. Both H.264 or MP4 can be made to be any size at all - simply change the settings and you'll see a massive difference in ultimate file size. Try playing with the Quality slider in QT Pro's export menu. Shifting from Best to High quality can often halve the file size. And if you really want your video to be 500 Kb, you can get there - try 10fps, Low Quality, mono low quality audio, etc. You don't need to buy Sorenson.

Finally, it's not true that "most people don't have H.264" - it's actually becoming pretty widely adopted, on both Windows and Mac. Anyone on a PC with an iPod will almost certainly have H.264 capabilities, for example. However, of course there are probably millions of office-bound Windows 98 people with no H.264 support - much as the OS9 laggards are on Mac.

Try to learn a little more about the complexities of a subject before blowing off steam about something you clearly don't know much about.

Thanks but I was referring to keeping the video at a high quality without changing the frame rate, etc. Right now it cannot be done without streaming.

Of course you can make it a small QuickTime file for the web but it would look like crap.

Show me how you can make a video look like the feature trailers you see out there, without streaming.

As for my lack of knowledge as you say. Perhaps it's true. But since I'm currently encoding an entire feature film for the network by streaming using .wmv files, I think I know a little.

Here is a site that I have used video clips, converted to flash.
http://www.havocallmadden.com/index.asp

BTW - I would love to be wrong on this. I want this to happen.

I was referring to keeping the video at a
high quality without changing the frame rate, etc.
Right now it cannot be done without streaming.

So wrong it's not even fair to call it wrong. Streaming and downloading are merely methods of delivery - USPS or FedEx, for want of an analogy: the package is the same weight, shape and size no matter which shipper you use. So if you're seeing a big, nice-looking trailer on the net, you can be quite sure that thing is quite possibly >100Mb in size, regardless of whether it's streamed of downloaded. The delivery technology has NOTHING to do with file size.

It's total nonsense to say you can't make good looking downloadable Quicktimes - of course you can. Look at-

http://apple.com/trailers/

All the trailers are encoded using the H.264 codec, can be very large indeed, and are downloadable Quicktimes.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Time to get to know the tools in your toolbox.

Don’t know what your problem is. I guess you just want to argue. I’m stating my experience and if you don’t like it then don’t read it.

First, I can’t view those trailers on my work PC since I don’t have QuickTime 7 and I don’t have administrative access to download it. Thus confirming my point that many people will not be able to view H.264 video, as of right now.

And yes you could make a 1gb video file if you want but the point is that most people would not wait for the download to view, thus defeating the purpose.

What I am saying is that we currently are unable to upload QuickTime videos at a rate that is of high quality and most importantly practical for internet viewing, without streaming it. Yes streaming makes the difference, as the video would play instantly no matter the file size because it is NOT being downloaded.

I work in the industry here in L.A. so I know from experience. I just spoke with someone here at Universal Studios that does encoding for his job and he agreed with me. Shocking isn’t it.

If you think you know so much, then tell me how I can load my 7 minute QuickTime video on the internet at a high quality, minimal download time, viewable for everyone, without streaming. I would love to be wrong so I could do this.


G5

Kevin --

Since you are here in the FCP forum let's assume you have FCP.

File - Export - Quicktime Conversion.

Change type to QT Movie and then right below, change to Broadband High.

Click on OPTIONS button and make sure Fast Streaming or Loading (forget which it says) is selected. Click the SIZE button to resize to your liking.

Save.

It will load immediately when someone hits it with their browser.

AND it will only be 2 to 3 megs per minute.

Example:

http://homepage.mac.com/captmench/movies/dolly.mov
or
http://web.mac.com/captmench/iWeb/Site/Movies/037FD32C-59D2-4311-BCF1-8CEAE2592F 6D.html

Now -- Even though this is SMALL on the browser, if I sent it to a page I could force it to 2x with NO loss in quality!! Can you do that with wmv?

Are you telling me that there is a problem with this compression?

Not to be argumentative, but -- in your industry in LA, why do most of the Studios have their trailers on Apple? Where do YOU go for trailers... I'd love to see the quality.

CaptM

I guess you just want to argue.

I don't have a problem with your question at all and am happy to help, it's the wild mistruths and cockeyed ideas you're promulgating here that need correcting. None of us would be happy if someone took your words as fact, when you're so off-base. But rest assured we're here to help.

First, I can’t view those trailers on my work PC
since I don’t have QuickTime 7 and I don’t have
administrative access to download it. Thus confirming
my point that many people will not be able to view
H.264 video, as of right now.

Since you're in charge of creating web video for your company, ask your boss for the tools to handle the tasks?

Nevertheless, it's no problem at all - use MPEG1 instead, which is very widely supported on PC's. However, realise that the more modern the codec, the better the picture quality and the lower the file size (MPEG1 is about 10 years old or more). So a decent looking MPEG1 movie will have a much larger file size than a decent H.264 or MPEG4 movie. So - that's one of the balancing acts you have to play.

And yes you could make a 1gb video file if you want
but the point is that most people would not wait for
the download to view, thus defeating the purpose.

I think Apple - and other movie trailer websites - get plenty of traffic. Although you might not be, someone is downloading that stuff. What about YouTube, Google Video? Video is never a trivial file size.

Can you post a link to a movie trailer you like? What file size do you consider ideal? What format can you view on your computer?

we currently are unable to
upload QuickTime videos at a rate that is of high
quality and most importantly practical
for internet viewing, without streaming it.

Do you know what your outbound bandwidth is? What kind of internet connection are you using to upload your clips?

Yes streaming makes the difference...because it is NOT being downloaded.

More mistruths, I'm sorry. If a data stream isn't bits being downloaded from the internet to your computer, then what is it?

tell me how I can
load my 7 minute QuickTime video on the internet at a
high quality, minimal download time, viewable for
everyone, without streaming.

Using H.264, you will be able to get that to look good at 320x240, 30fps, at a file size of maybe 15Mbs. That's a perfectly normal size for good looking web video, and will be acceptable to anybody with a broadband connection.

Maybe we're approaching this the wrong way? What file size would you LIKE your movie to be, and with what kind of internet connection do you expect people to watch it?

I’ll give your settings a try but take note that my H.264 video is about 3 megs per minute, so at 7 min. 30 sec. the video size is 22 megs. That is too big for the web, for me. I even have it at 240x180, which is much smaller than I like.

I guess 3 megs would be fine for a two-minute video but I have longer videos.

Yes, I could make the video a smaller file size but I don’t want to lose quality.

.wmv does compress things smaller but I was hoping not to go that route. We compress feature films here at my work using .wmv because it provides better encoding. That is not my opinion but the professionals here that deal with it. QuickTime is not an option for entire features. One of my many job tasks is encoding features for network and director approval, but I have no say as to deciding using QuickTime versus .wmv. The department that created this system for encoding, who I spoke to yesterday, gave me the info.

I don’t work on trailers at my work.

Like I said, I want to be wrong. I would love to show a high quality long play video on the internet with a small file size. I believe one day that will be possible. We are getting closer but we are not all the way there yet.