Decided to Downgrade from Mountain Lion to Snow Leopard.

You would have to do a clean install for starters and not upgrade over 10.6

There is no longer Rosetta support for PowerPC

As long as your apps and drivers and plugin are ML compliant and 64-bit and using 64-bit kernel mode you should be more than fine with 10.8.3 now.

Dual or triple boot and keep each on their own hard drives .

I just bailed on an install of 10.8 on a MacBookPro that I recently picked up.

Not at all what I was expecting, though in all fairness since the laptop does have a 500 gig hard drive, I partitioned it with four volumes - one for Leopard (I have some games which don't run on anything else) Snow Leopard and Mountain Lion (which I have yet to really want to work in, but it is at least an option) and the last for storage.

Color me unimpressed for 10.8, so I am maintaining Snow Leopard in my MacPro, though it is a first gen. with no 64-bit bootloader, so 10.8 is out of the question anyhow.

Alas, since graphics is the primary reason for my MacPro, I am staying with what works. Not at all surprised that 10.8 isn't working as much of what it seems to be based on is cloud services - great fot the twittering, tweeting, tweenyboppers, but those who don't mind manual work and synching of our files - it leaves a bit to be desired - and what is with it drifting towards iOS in appearance in function? Yuk!

I suppose if you were still willing to keep ML around for playing, you could partition a drive and give yourself an empty volume to put a later install on.

Regards,

Deb.

The only model that had trouble I thought were the 3,1 2008's for awhile.

10.6.4 will not support a 2010, the OEM DVD is a special build of 10.6.4+ which I assume you have.

And that you ran Apple Hardware Test off the OEM disc.

Any standard disk drive today or in the last two years should be fine.

But you do need a lot more than a couple for the type of work you do.

As for the difference between standard drives and SSD, night and day.

And put the SSD (or more) on a PCIe controller and it is the difference between 100 mph and 900 mph (or MB/sec).

You are the perfect candidate to read through and take in what Dlloyd has put together for Pro users and for CS6 and current Mac Pro in particular as well as even MacBook Pro users.

http://www.macperformanceguide.com - click on the "Articles and Topics" at the top, main link is news blog

TimeMachine can alter its structure with a new OS so what I do is move to a new TimeMachine drive (I have 3 WD Green for that).

And always clone your system, clone any other volumes as well, so you have spare, a backup you can boot from, and say 10.8.999 doesnt' work you can go back to your working version of 10.8.n

Carbon Copy Cloner also will put the Recovery volume on the cloned drive so you really have a full backup.

You should not need to do any cllearing or messing with your account or caches unless they are corrupt or other errors. And while an inventory of extensios is helpful and people are known to cause a lot of trouble by even having a few (1-4) incompatible and out of date items - some of which will just rrash Mac OS.

MacCleaner should be treated as malware and avoided at all costs. Some other programs not needed. Rule of thumb: LESS is MORE and lean and clean runs and performs faster and more stable and reliable.

Deb,

A Mac Pro here is a tower with 4-6 internal drive bays, and people put their system on PCIe controller SSDs to get full benefit.

A Mac Pro for CS6 should have 24GB RAM and up.

Snow Leopard on a Mac Pro works fine but can also be run in a VM quite well also.

A disk drive should really be formatted and initialized with any new OS and esp ML.

And yes it would be slow and limited with 4 operating systems. You could make a huge impact on performance wth that with a 500GB SSD to get more out of it if not ready.

Lion and ML are finally free of the heavy overhead of Rosetta and powerpc and can use Cocoa, 64-bit native OS top to bottom.

But we are not talking here about notebooks.

you are limiting yourself with using anything less than native SATA or eSATA's 150MB/sec interface and drives.

The difference on my OLD Mac Pro 1,1 using SSD and not is enogh to say "No way" or "this is fantastic!

The cost of SSD? $100.

Putting WD Black 4TB drives $300 each, and do NOT use "GREEN" for active editing - inside your Mac

SL needs to be 10.6.8 plus all updates. And yes, a Disk utility sparse disk image and a small 100GB partition somewhere is all you need to have it available

SL can also be run in Parallels under ML

Disk drives change and evolve. ML needs more modern graphics and those from AMD and Nvidia looks to be coming online. GTX 680 $599 from EVGA and AMD has Mac Edition also. A first for both in 3rd party supporting 10.8.3+ --- someone needs to develop high def video for a 4K world.

A test of system with AHT.

A close look for RAM issues, having enough, etc.

I still have NO IDEA WHAT your system config is comprised of. RAM, CPU, storage, GPU to know or guess.

A 6-core 3.33GHz w/ 4x8GB RAM and ATI 5770 has been the sweet spot (the 3.33GHz can be done for $620). what does not work well is low RAM and slow 8-core 2.4GHz processors as an example.

WD Black 2TB drives are nice, solid, fast and $170. That coupled with the Samsung 840 120GB are nice platform table for design and drawing.

I like the WD 10K VR series in 250GB ($100) and 1TB ($220) for their speed, SCSI feel and speed and very solid reliability.

Any new drive sold today almost HAS to have a full zero of all the media sectors to make sure it is a working drive with no weak marginal or bad sectors.

If you have any Green drives, use them only for backup.

The Hatter wrote:

But we are not talking here about notebooks.

Nor was I. sweets.

Hatter, I have a MacPro 1,1 with 4 internal drives and NINE partitions, a 700mhz G4 in a living room console that's a media server, a G4 1.67 PowerBook and a 2009 MacBookPro which just came my way.

I have tried using 10.8 and found it to be a huge load of 'Meh!' - the OP's post seemed to state he wasn't happy with mountain lion on his system, and yeah, platform aside, it's lacking if you're expecting more than the cloud-based stuff that seems to be the direction that Apple is heading with their software. I don't know why anyone that's a graphics artist would bother with 10.8 - at this point, it's not offering enough to really justify upgrading from 10.6 - when CS5 works well enough and at least with Rosetta installed in SnowLeopard, there are all the older apps, like Painter which run just fine. For those of us that use graphics tablets - I have a 12x12 Wacom - I can not *draw* faster than the system runs.

I've run across plenty of users who've experienced the SAME gnarly speed and spinning balls of death issues on older kit running Mountain Lion. For whatever reason, it's not really happy on MacPros - not like it is on the newest iMacs and laptops.. Now when the new MacPros hit the market, we'll see. For someone that's talking about a ROI on a 20 dollar install, that alone clued me in that OP seemed to be venting his frustrations and disappointments more than anything. If he wants optimal speed, he'd be smart to stick with the OS that the hardware came with until it's time to add a SSD and more RAM.

Regards,

Deb.

Mountain Lion is not supported on a 1,1 so I have not used it personally.

Lion has been more than fine. And some or many think ML is what Lion should have been.

It is free of the past and having that gone, Rosetta was a pain and overhead to emulate PPC in the OS, almost like its own small VM.

2008's did have trouble with ML and felt like they left out testing.

Apple sold Mac pro with 3 x OEM GT120s and yet more than one no longer works, which seems to mean they didn't look for or test or had trouble.

And yes up until 10.8.3 even I use to help and coach people to skip Lion and go BACK to 10.6.8. I changed my tune.

Under the hood 10.7.5 and 10.8.3 drivers and the CORE foundation, the 64-bit drivers on modern hardware, the need for 64-bit memory managment and control and allowing CS6 to make better use and not be tied down to 3.5GB RAM per process. .

You do not have a 2010, and yes your notebook '09 is four yrs old and laptops do tend to not do well with newer OS requirements. A Mac Pro you can throw in new graphic card, SSD, PCIe to help.

Your Mac Pro 1,1 with the setup I have: minimum 8GB RAM and ATI 8800GT or above, SSD.. but you use it for media server and do not need Lion. It does run better than a pure 10.6.8 though.

Having all the partitions can cause madness - overhead in managing all those volumes.

Even during Tiger Apple changed I/O and partition structure. Changed IOKit for external drive behavior mounting during 10.5. Saw people have trouble with 10.6 with their USB and/or Firewire externals. Things change.

Rosetta has a 2GB "tax" and overhead. If you are not pushing 2GB files you may be fine. Not everyone needs 24-48GB - but for the pro photographer that does do a lot of large batch files and has a business and their Mac pays for itself so that investing in a 6-core 3.33GHz or 12-core w/ up to 96GB and they aren't just a consumer.

The next stage in Final Cut and video and media creation though will demand 64-bit drivers which was one reason for dropping EFI32 and older graphic cards that do not perform iwth the demands of ML and above. Yes?

I have --- with EVERY new OS seen the same "users" more often with notebooks and iMacs demoan how it runs slower. And they can't always upgrade processor like you can, or throw in SSDs, or new graphic card and often have just dual core and 2-4GB RAM. EVERY SINGLE time from 10.5 to .6 to .7 and then .8.

And the "never upgrade to dot zero" rule. Mostly it is when the 10.X.3 (threes) where the OS begins to feel polished but not always. It wasn't for 10.6 or 10.7 or 10.5.

Apple is not heading in just one direction. But it is building out a consumer electronics yes.

A high-end iMac today is more than capable. it has 3.5GHz and 32GB RAM and excellent gpu. And it only runs 10.8.x

There was a lot of trouble in 2011 with SATA3, with SSDs, and with Thunderbolt (and req'd upgrading those MacBookPro models to Lion to get those working properly).

If the OP tries, and wants help, and can rule out hardware (have not gotten there yet and to run AHT) (I still do NOT have a profile of their Mac Pro specs either) it will run smoothly. But you could install XYZ (MacKeeper, some AV product, something else) and cause it to feel and run like 2-cyclinder buggy.

It is always time to add RAM and SSDs. Mac Pro regardless of the OS! They ship with baisc minimum. Same when yours shipped in '06. I still find some didn't realize how much or how little that 1-2GB RAM was hurting them.

You don't lose anything installing an SSD.

And 120GB $100 is ample size. Some put it in the lower optical drive bay where it is happy to be

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Series-120GB-internal-MZ-7TD120BW/dp/B009NHAF06/

TRIM Enabler (free) is a must have on your system:

http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/37852/trim-enabler

What it also sounds like you need to start using, and buy also, is Carbon Copy Cloner

http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/7032/carbon-copy-cloner

so you have a bootable backup "clone" of your system and can test, be protected etc - and create a 150GB partition as well.

You should have all drive bays full of WD Black 1-2-4TB and $90 1TB / $155 for 2TB

WD Black 1TB $90

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Caviar-Internal-Desktop/dp/B0036Q7MV0/

Using Cloning as a Backup Strategy

http://www.apple.com/support/lion/installrecovery/

Create an OS X Lion Install disc

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-20080989-263/how-to-create-an-os-x-lion-ins tallation-disc

How to clone your system:

http://macperformanceguide.com/Mac-HowToClone-backup.html

http://macperformanceguide.com/Mac-HowToClone.html

http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/7032/carbon-copy-cloner

http://www.macperformanceguide.com/blog/2012/20120711_2-MacPro-internal-clone-ba ckup.html

Memory:

6GB is minimal. Figure on 24GB upgrade for $275.

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/85MP3W8M24K/

Dual booting is easy to do. You could even setup 10.6.8 and 10.8.3 on a single drive but I would skip on that for now, but if you were to... also $100 but 250GB but not as fast as an SSD so not as good an investment (could be used for scratch though).

PS: No one really buys RAM or hard drives from Apple. Prices are prohibitive.

WD VR 10K 250GB+ $103 200MB/sec boot drive has larger sizes also :

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007V5A1BK/

Photoshop Performance Optimizing

http://macperformanceguide.com/OptimizingPhotoshopCS5-Benchmarks.html

http://macperformanceguide.com/OptimizingPhotoshop-Intro.html

http://macperformanceguide.com/PhotoshopCS5-performance.html

I would of course include the $100-170 SSD in the mix say between 3x16GB and the next RAM upgrade! 🙂

2x16GB on each memory bus daughter card might be the way to go so you are open to adding more - as highly unlikely or not as that may be. never lock the barn door after let the cows out.

There are many ways to get there, just tie a string so you know the way back home.

Clones before during and after give you stepping stones to put out in front and behind.

For me, 8GB for even light grahics was not nearly enough, 12 would have been "okay" but 16GB gave me balanced symmetrical performance for my system (8x2GB).

It is nice to hear it works admirably well now. I imagine with 32GB and then SSD RAID0 on $300 6G controller (900MB/sec) you will fly. And that can be system or scratch or your editing project volume.

I wish the Mac Pro had gotten up to SATA3 at least but it can be add on.

2.4GHz even with 8 cores, CS6 does not use 8 all that well and if there is a way to allocate it to use 4 or 6 that might make sense. Shame cannot overclock or that a pair of 4-core 3.4GHz processors would also give you 1GHz per core X 8 = 8,000GHz more roughly 50% on top of what you have. Which is why the 6-core 3.33GHz has been the cost performance sweet spot, and one processor vs dual comes out to be more efficient handling memory and not having to "move" things between processors over QuickLink bus (yours 4.8GHz while Westmere is I think 6.4GHz bus but still there is overhead moving data around).

Hope the reading and school of hard knocks didn't cost too much but at least it can earn its keep now and better prepared for future in software and hardware upgrades.

Dlloyd www.macperformanceguide.com does get into his 12-core 96GB 16TB w/ 2 x PCIe cards running 4 x SSDs of 1TB each to push CS6 to the limits.

The hatter wrote:

Having all the partitions can cause madness - overhead in managing all those volumes.

So far I've not had a single issue - on top of the partitions there's also the external pocket drives I back just my illustrations to and of course the networked terabyte drive on the AirPort. If I need to transfer any music from the living room G4 audio-box, I mount that, as it's running with a SATA drive on a PCI controller - Tiger isn't a *big* fan of too many mount points - it's record is 12 volumes then it gets squirrelly. If I'm doing any disk work, such as running utilities I make it a habit to unmount all the partitions I don't need. I honestly have more issues with all the wireless iThingies in the house fighting for router addresses - all the desktops are hardwired in and manually set so they stay fine.

I tried Lion when it came out - burned a disk and did a clean install but lost useability of too many of the older graphics apps I still use. Had high expectations for Mountain Lion, but te experience on the MBP was underwhelming, to say the least.

I'm thinking for the not-too-distant future, an upgrade to quad-core processors - I can get them on the cheap, 100 bucks a matched pair, a SSD and another four gigs of RAM will be the final state for the MacPro.

Never trust a new OS, not 10.3.0 and that held true up to 10.7.0 and 8.0. Wait for a few updates to clean it up and get the driers and issues 'field tested'

I only say that each and every OS and esp now with Lion and above the disk drive should be initialized with the new OS.

Get a 2012 or later system, you'll be fine, 4yr old, not so much of course. I too thought it was all iOS and iDevices and the Mac pro was getting short changed.

Those high quality Amazon 4GB kits I snapped up were nice or I would have abandoned mine. But it was the Samsung SSD that turned my head as I have said. And today it goes on a 6G PCIe. ATI 5770 arrives tomorrow. I am working on some books and things in iPhoto I could not have before and sifting through 60,000 photos in the process.

next year around now I hope to drive off in a new Ivy Bridge or beyond.

When I was trying to get the most out of my G4 MDD it was three ATTO UL3D and those high cost Cheetahs. A couple SSDs put those $3K of inventory to shame.