Making the Orchestral Bass Drum sound "sexier"....

Question

Making the Orchestral Bass Drum sound "sexier"....

Hi all,

I'm working on my Autoload....and am now at the Orchestral Bass Drum (Gran Cassa) ....

Ok........I've got a big ole' plate verb on the Bass Drum (and of course I made sure that the plate does NOT have low-end to avoid mud)

Now ..........let's talk EQing the Gran Cassa.......

Mind you I EQ very little on Orchestra....(usually pull down about 3.0db at 375Hz with a broad q on the Stereo Buss, since mid-buildup gets a bit much and this makes things alot more clear........so subtractive EQing)

However the Gran Cassa is a special case and for modern scoring low-end is a big deal.......

Anyone care to share some Eq curves and Dynamic processing techniques of the Gran Cassa...

I'm thinking along the lines of a hyped low-end....like Howard Shore in "Copland"
It is eluding me....rrrrrrrrr

Here is the curve I have going on the Gran Cassa using the Channel EQ ...

104 Hz +5db Q 4.0
290 Hz -9db Q 2.60
4650 Hz +7db Q 2.0 (hi shelving)

It's there but not quite... I really want the Orhestral Bass Drum sound to be "organic", so I am shying away from stacking it with an electronic sine BOOM.....BUT I am looking for more BOOM.

thoughts anyone ?

SvK

G5 Dual 2Ghz with 8 gig, Mac OS X (10.4)

Posted on May 27, 2006 10:10 PM

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Answer 1

blayzay

Level 3

630 points

May 28, 2006 12:24 AM in response to Steven von Kampen

Try GUTIAR AMP PRO/SCULPTURE.
EX24 is said to be good aswell.
M P C Is good for doing stuff like that aswell/Even REASON could do the trick.
Good luck,
Fr; Blayzay.

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Answer 2

May 28, 2006 3:10 AM in response to Steven von Kampen

i have pretty good results with my BD by using subbass plug-in. also put some eq on it either before or after subbass and have a look at the freq spectrum. if you boost some of the higher freqs (you will see some bunching somewhere between 5-8k) that will give the attack a bit more bite.

the subbass should be set both wet and dry somewhere around 130hz and no lower and the spread of the effect should be quite wide. go to my ftp site (my website isn't working properly at the moment) and download preperations.mp3 and plague.mp3, they have the BD in there that i'm talking about. the second one is more exposed but not as heavily effected.

http://www.stevenson.homechoice.co.uk/demos/

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Answer 3

May 28, 2006 7:29 AM in response to Rohan Stevenson1

I don't have an answer...

I'm just trying to get over you using the words "Orchestral Bass Drum" and "Sexier" in the same sentence... 🙂

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Answer 4

May 28, 2006 8:25 AM in response to Jim Frazier

yes, it's hard to imagine a percussionist with a mullet and bad breath making a bass drum sound 'sexy'...but then 'sexy' is a relative term though isn't it? i would hate to think of what steve would want from a bassoon player if he wants 'sexy' from a percussionist...

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Answer 5

May 28, 2006 11:02 AM in response to Rohan Stevenson1

yes, it's hard to imagine a percussionist with a
mullet and bad breath making a bass drum sound
'sexy'...but then 'sexy' is a relative term though
isn't it? i would hate to think of what steve would
want from a bassoon player if he wants 'sexy' from a
percussionist...

Rohan

Nice mixes 😉

Yeah the EQ curve ...you suggested is pretty much the same as the one I listed..........I will try "sub-bass".....the reason I did not is because "maxx-bass" from waves wasn't giving me the sex.
I have figured out that the "ppp" gran- cassa are wwwaaayyyyyy more bassy when placing them loud in the mix.....

I forgot to mention that it is NOT the Forte Gran Cassa I am after ....I'm looking for that Howard Shore "Copland soundtrack" kinda sound....

Here is a link...

http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/FileSharing.woa/wa/default?user=svonkampen&te mplatefn=FileSharing1.html&xmlfn=TKDocument.1.xml&sitefn=RootSite.xml&aff=consum er&cty=US〈=en

SvK

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Answer 6

May 28, 2006 12:29 PM in response to Steven von Kampen

i think i see what you mean. you want the sound to bloom a bit more, rather than give it more definition. you might try giving it a wider stereo image either crudely with sample delay (though watch the phase with lower freq sounds - in fact its not that effective with them) or with a good SD with the reverb long and decaying slowly and then couple that with some platinum reverb. then possibly compressing the reverb somewhat but leaving it low in the mix. if you do this in conjuction with the subbass, having the subbass first in the chain and put the compressed reverb on a bus it might just add a little extra colour and organic texture.

these are just thoughts, i think the sound you have already probably just needs that little subbass help to be honest.

good luck. sounds great BTW.

the GC sounds bassier because it has less of the higher freqs of a hard attack, and is probably recorded closer to the source.

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Answer 7

May 28, 2006 3:27 PM in response to Rohan Stevenson1

Rohan,

Thanx for all your help.....

BTW....the clip IS Howard Shore......It is my reference for my "special" Gran Cassa.....

I nailed it 😉.........here is what I did............I used the Gran Cassa from VSL......

I remapped the the ppp / pp / mp (got rid of ff stuff) The trick was to stack the Hard Mallet ones ontop of the Soft Mallet ones (with the hard mallet ones really compressed but ultra quiet behind the soft mallet samples)

Then the Logic SUbbassplug (not much ...........but with your settings)

BTW..I enjoyed "Placue"

Here are some short cues I've done .........

http://web.mac.com/svonkampen/iWeb/Site/Welcome.html

SvK

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Answer 8

May 28, 2006 8:49 PM in response to Steven von Kampen

hello steve, just heard your clips.
between you and rohan, we're getting a tidy team of orchestraters here.
your work, like rohan's, can only enhance this site.

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Answer 9

May 28, 2006 9:42 PM in response to David Robinson9

David,

Thanx 😉

SvK

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Answer 10

May 29, 2006 3:42 AM in response to Steven von Kampen

steve those clips are fantatstic. the cops are coming cue was fantastic and the sound on the hermanesque cue is incredible. awesome brass. can't wait for you to stick a few more cues up there.

BTW i had to laugh looking at the site, i am doing something very similar at the moment trying to tidy up mine with iWeb. does the job doesn't it. doesn't have to be flash top be flash.

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Answer 11

May 29, 2006 1:30 PM in response to Rohan Stevenson1

Rohan,

Thanx!

You know,
I went nuts on GranCassa production......

I took it to new levels 😉
I ended up giving the ppp,pp,pp,mp......a different buss then the m, mf, f, ff, fff
With the the former having a different verb and eq curve from the m-fff series...
Basically WAY more reverb and softer EQ on the quiet ones and Less/Shorter verb on the fortes with punchier EQ....

After some "blending" issues everything came up roses.......They sound spectacular now....

ps: concerning site...yeah, less is more!

SvK

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Answer 12

May 29, 2006 2:45 PM in response to Steven von Kampen

well don't forget to stick it up on your site - since you've piqued everyones curiosity (well - at least mine). BTW do you have a sensible domain name?

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Answer 13

xs4is

Level 4

2,800 points

May 29, 2006 4:16 PM in response to Steven von Kampen

Jaw Dropping Incredible.

Truly.

Are you using a sample library for your orchestra (if so which, if you don't mind sharing) or is that live? I'm having a hard time telling (except on the bongos on NY Sunset 1972, but it is still INCREDIBLE

)

Thank you for sharing.

X

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Answer 14

May 29, 2006 4:40 PM in response to xs4is

X,

Thanx,

Umm......French Horns and all Strings are Vienna......French Horns are Vienna's Epic Horns (truly a must own)....

"Here Come Cops" all the brass is Quantum Leap Brass (customised patches) ...

I believe i did "Manhattan Sunrise 1972" PRIOR to buying Vienna, which means the strings AND french horns are Miroslav "Customised" patches.....

ps: those **** bongos 😉.....BTW the realism has ALOT to do with using SpaceDesigner IR's NOT supplied with Logic.....

Todd AO Studio IR
EMT Plates for Brass etc

customised patches means setting up velocity crossfades on MOd Wheel for horns that are soft and horns that are played forte....also if on short samples there are 2 or more versions setting up kontakt to randomise between them eliminates that dreaded "machine-gun" effect of restriking the same note twice.....even only 2 versions for each note will do wonders in the "realism" dept...........this is only scratching the surface.....

In truth the actual composition takes about a 10th of the time that making it sound "real" does............the danger always exists that you are polishing a "turd".....so it is imperative to make sure that the chord progression and hook,really satisfies you prior to embarking on the long, tedious journey of "realism".

I'm sounding bitter 😉 HOWEVER once it sounds right,,I always think it was worth it.

.

SvK

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Answer 15

xs4is

Level 4

2,800 points

May 29, 2006 4:41 PM in response to Rohan Stevenson1

Rohan, you are a GENIUS

Fantastic!

I haven't listened to all of the clips yet, (but more than half and I will finish them) and I think each and everyone is incredible.

I really enjoyed the effected drums in Classmix (as well as the masterfully done musical build-up), and suggestions are welcome on how to accomplish that sound. I've always been a horror movie buff and when I was listening Chapel, I closed my eyes and felt the "coming doom."

Great Job Rohan!

X

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