Best control desk & I/O recommendations?

Question

Level 1

10 points

Best control desk & I/O recommendations?

Hi folks, new member...

While I'm pretty new to high end computer recording, I've been in the music business all my life as a musician and house engineer. I'm 47 years old and yes, I've gotta have a console in front of me!! (I'll live with the mouse and keyboard as I'm pretty familiar with Pro-Tools and the like from studio work.)

Anyhow, since I use Macs alot and am building a small (but nice!) home studio, and can't afford a "big boys" set-up, I need input on a simple but expandable system and have decided on Logic Pro software on a new high end Mac desktop. I am not familiar enough to choose the most compatible components or brand names that will work well together so advice is welcomed!

My only requirements are that I can record 16 tracks simultaneously, and would like 16 tracks-worth of faders/encoders in front of me without banking.

So far I've looked at the Tascam stuff, especially the F-1884 and one FE-8 expander since it includes I/O. The Digidesign Control 24 is sweet, but big bucks and no interface. The Mackie Onyx 16ch board with Firewire option is another thought, but mackie hasn't impressed me much build-wise since they sent their business overseas....

So..... any and all comments appreciated!!!!

Thanks,
Tony

Powerbook G4 Mac OS X (10.4.6)

Posted on May 28, 2006 6:08 AM

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Answer 1

blayzay

Level 3

630 points

May 28, 2006 6:38 AM in response to Tonester2k

The Digidesign 002 is quite good. I have seen it work,
never used one personally.
M-audio has the project/mix i-o,
And both of these desk will work with pro/tools as well as logic pro.
And to top it all.
Work together, with pro tools and logic pro.
Side by side I should think.
good luck.
fr;: blayzay.

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Answer 2

May 28, 2006 6:52 AM in response to blayzay

The Digi 002 control surface won't work with Logic. It will work as an audio interface.

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Answer 3

May 28, 2006 6:57 AM in response to Tonester2k

I have the Mackie 1640 fw and it works very well. note though that the signal is routed just after the preamps, so if u want to use(record) eq and/or insertjacks u will need to rebuild the mixer. Cost around 200 usdollars.

As midi controll board I use Behringer: http://www.behringer.com/BCF2000/index.cfm?lang=ENG

250 usdollars. worx nicely and the price is VERY low.

/ Mikke

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Answer 4

blayzay

Level 3

630 points

May 28, 2006 7:07 AM in response to tele_player

Thanks the 002 I saw work, was indeed protools.

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Answer 5

Tonester2k Author

Level 1

10 points

May 28, 2006 9:54 AM in response to blayzay

Thanks for all the replies. I do need 16 inputs/tracks at once, however, only 8 need to be on mic pre's. The others can be 1/4" but they'll need to have gain trims (or can I do that in Logic?). We record all our stuff live in the studio, then replace everything but the bass & drums (DDRum electronic, hence the 8 1/4" inputs) with new overdubs at our convenience. The Drums and Bass are tweaked and usually left as-is (good musicians I work with!)

So... 16 inputs at once, 16 faders available at once (I'm old school, eh?).
Monitoring with Mackie HR824's for now. I have great Mics etc also.

So, what is the ideal input setup(s) for around 2-3 grand not counting Mac & Logic Pro?

Thanks,
Tony

Powerbook G4 Mac OS X (10.4.6)

Powerbook G4 Mac OS X (10.4.6)

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Answer 6

May 28, 2006 10:34 AM in response to Tonester2k

I use the Tascam US-2400 control surface. While I have not use others for basis of comparison, I really like this as a mixing desk. This would leave you with at least $1000.00 left over for your audio hardware.

For excellent audio hardware, consider RME. I have heard only good things about their AD/DA converters. Recently I bought their Octamic-D for use with my MOTU Traveler.

Seems like you might like to get a card that will do 16 in/16 out and use it with your favorite analog mixer for recording, and then use the US-2400 once you are inside logic.

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Answer 7

May 28, 2006 10:58 AM in response to 11th Hour

Hmmm, I'd look at the US2400, and two presonus firepods. All together, about $2000.

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Answer 8

blayzay

Level 3

630 points

May 28, 2006 5:53 PM in response to Tonester2k

M audio projectmix will handle what your after, for more i/o its compatable with the DELTTA 1010 which is all so M-audio, that will give you another 8 anologe and digital spdif so thats more than enough.
good Luck. and happy recording.

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Answer 9

EoS

Level 2

300 points

May 28, 2006 7:03 PM in response to Tonester2k

There's still nothing that provides better integration and functionality with Logic than a Logic Control (or Mackie Control Universal). Been using an LC & XT (8 channel expander) since they came out, and it's a great combo. Looks like the expanders have dropped in street price from what they used to be also (were 850, now 750).

Audio interfaces, I'd go RME or Motu firewire. RME reputed to have better audio quality, but also more expensive. I've been using Motu's (828 original, and MkII) for several years and they're great. The have lightpipe i/o so rather than running a second full unit (ala the presonus fire-stuff), you can add your choice of multi pre-amps to lightpipe. I use a Presonus Digimax LT for this. With the 828MkII and the DMaxLT I have 18 analog inputs, 10 of which are mic pre's.

Personally, I prefer using separate control surface & audio components to having an all in one. When I go mobile I can take only a laptop and small rack - I'd hate to have to drag a big control surface along. If I need a crontrol surface when I'm mobile, I take a BCF2000 (running in LC mode) along.

Another VERY handy devices is the Frontier Designs Tranzport - if you track yourself at all, it's reeeally convenient.

Good luck!

MBP 1.83 & MDD 1G DP Mac OS X (10.4.6)

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Answer 10

May 28, 2006 9:24 PM in response to Mikke Svensson

Mikke Svensson,

Did you rebuild your onyx 1640 to take the direct out after the fader?

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Answer 11

May 28, 2006 9:47 PM in response to EoS

I agree with EoS that seperate control and audio components are preferable. The most cost-effective AD conversion per channel will likely be the MOTU 24 I/O. Unfortunately it does not provide a MIDI interface, which you will need to use the Mackie Universal Control, but you could get something like the M-Audio Midisport.

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Answer 12

May 28, 2006 10:48 PM in response to 11th Hour

" Mikke Svensson,

Did you rebuild your onyx 1640 to take the direct out after the fader? "

I could have choosen that but I choosed right before the fader. So I use the fader for listening.

I wanted/needed the Eq and the insertjacks to be routed to the mac through the FW interface. So I rebuilt it so the "direct" signal now goes after the Eq and insert but before the mute and fader. ( The fader I just use for the musicians listening, I never use software monitoring, I instead use livesound from the mixer as listeningsound )

/ Mikke

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Answer 13

Tonester2k Author

Level 1

10 points

May 29, 2006 12:19 PM in response to EoS

Excellent suggestions, folks, and thanks. I'm still undecided, so feel free to add any more comments. Sounds like seperate components will be the way to go (also easier to upgrade when money comes along...). Does anyone know if the older Logic Control is being supported/backed by Apple? Or are they looking elsewhere (Apogee?) or recommending any one brand over another?

I also would like to hear how you guys are monitoring with the various systems, or if you can recommend a good thread on the subject.

Thanks - one of the best forums on Apple!

Tony

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Answer 14

May 29, 2006 12:51 PM in response to Tonester2k

I monitor using MOTU's Cuemix Console, which is a software controller of the DSP mixer in my traveler. You can use this with any MOTU hardware component. It is also MIDI controllable with your control surface. While you won't get to use real-time plug-in processing, the upside is that it places almost or no load on your computer processor, which greatly improves the stability of your tracking.

RME DSP cards also feature a similar system with their HDSP/Hammerfall/Totalmix.

Whichever brand you go with, try to get something that has this DSP monitoring feature that is MIDI controllable.

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Answer 15

May 29, 2006 3:18 PM in response to 11th Hour

Since most users are probably dubbing tracks onto sessions which already have other tracks and effects, any CPU savings from Cue Mix (or the equivalent from RME, Focusrite, Metric Halo, etc.) is negligible in terms of stability. It's just about low latency monitoring of what's being recorded.

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