Previous 1 2 Next 20 Replies Latest reply: Jun 10, 2013 8:55 AM by Frank Caggiano
Bruce Jordan Level 1 (30 points)

Was there a change to Aperture Trash emptying to OS X trash in a recent Aperture update?


I put a new SSD (OWC Accelsior 240GB) in my MacPro and installed OS X and various applications, including Aperture 3 (now 3.4.4).


There is a change in the behavior of Aperture Trash. 


Previously, I would delete images (Command + Delete) which would put them in Aperture Trash. 

Then 'Empty Aperture Trash' would put them in OS X Trash can. 

Then it would be necessary to empty the OS Trash can to completely eliminate the image files.


Now, after I 'Empty Aperture Trash', the images are gone (they do not appear in OS X Trash).


This behavior is fine by me as long as it is working as intended, but the fact that it is a change has me concerned.  I've been having problems with this machine - so I'm trying to determine whether I've got things working properly or whether this is a hint at further fixes required.


My Aperture library exists on a software RAID 0 array (2 Western Digital 1TB drives).


OS X and Aperture boot from the SSD (which replaced an older SSD).

Mac Pro, OS X Mountain Lion (10.8.3), 8 core, 32GB RAM
  • léonie Level 10 (85,605 points)

    Now, after I 'Empty Aperture Trash', the images are gone (they do not appear in OS X Trash).

    They should still be appearing in the Trash bin on your Desktop, if Aperture can write to the System trash.


    • What happens, when you create a small test Aperture library on your internal drive and import a test image, then trash it. Will this test image appear in the trash on your Desktop?
    • What happens, when you copy any file - a document, a photo file - to your external drive (My Aperture library exists on a software RAID 0 array (2 Western Digital 1TB drives). )and then delete it? Do these files appear in your trash or are they deleted immediately?


    My Aperture library exists on a software RAID 0 array (2 Western Digital 1TB drives).


    How is this drive connected and formatted?




  • Bruce Jordan Level 1 (30 points)

    Thank you for your reply Leonie.


    Creating a test Aperture library on the SSD, importing an image, and deleting/trashing causes the image to be moved to the OS Trash can.


    Copying a file to the RAID drive and then deleting it causes a dialog box saying "This item will be deleted immediately" (which it is, without moving to OS Trash).


    The RAID drives are internal to the MacPro, formatted as 'Mac OS Extended (Journaled). 

    They were installed and formatted when I first bought the machine (just after installing the original SSD). 


    So, I'm guessing this is a permissions issue, or similar?   Shortly after installing OS X on the new SSD, I went to the RAID in Finder and used Get Info to add myself as authorized to 'Read & Write' and selected 'apply to enclosed items' from the gear icon.

  • Frank Caggiano Level 7 (25,715 points)

    Look at the root of the RAID drive and see if there is a .Trashes folder. Whats the permissions on it?

  • Bruce Jordan Level 1 (30 points)

    No .Trashes folder appears.

  • Frank Caggiano Level 7 (25,715 points)

    That's the problem.


    The way the trash works in OS X is any file you delete on the root volume go into your .trash folder in your home folder. Any file you delete on other volumes go into the .Trashes folder at the root of that volume. The OS makes it appear that the file is in your home trash folder but that's only an accounting trick.


    If you get the message you are getting on deletes on external volumes it indicates a problem with the .Trashes folder, usually permissions. In your case you say it is not there at all.


    The .Trashes folder is normally created by the OS when a volume is mounted if it is not there. So as a first step I would recommend you unmount the volume and mount it again and see if the .Trashes folder is created.

  • Bruce Jordan Level 1 (30 points)

    OK, Thank you, I will try this.


    Does it matter that I have re-booted the machine a few times?  (in other words, the drive was mounted at power-up)?


    Edit:  Another fact that might be significant:  I deliberately setup the machine with two users.  One has administrative rights, the other (that I use daily) does not.  (Both accounts were set as authorized to Read & Write on the drive).

  • léonie Level 10 (85,605 points)

    No .Trashes folder appears.

    Just to be sure - how did you look? All symptoms indicate that it is really missing, but in the Finder this folder usually is simply hidden.

  • Bruce Jordan Level 1 (30 points)

    hmmm.  Unmounted, then Mounted the drive.  No change in behavior.


    For what it is worth, I'm quite sure the .Trashes folder has never been visible on this drive (there are few Root level folders, so I would have noticed it).


    On a whim, I clicked Go, Go to Folder, and typed ".Trashes". 


    A .Trashes folder appeared on the drive.  It is dim (folder icon less saturated than normal, text is gray).


    Get Info shows me having Read&Write privileges.


    Should I "Make (me) the owner"?

  • Frank Caggiano Level 7 (25,715 points)

    Rebooting should have recreated the folder but give the unmount/remount a shot.


    Not sure if the fact that this is a RAID 0 should change the behavior, I don't run RAID myself so I can't check it out but I can't find anything that says it should be different.


    Also don't think the user setup you mention should affect this. Setting up the .Trashes folder should be part of the mount sequence.


    Just to be sure, how did you look for the .Trashes folder? You are aware that folder/files that begin with a period will not normally show up in the Finder, correct?


    One other thing to try, look in the console logs when you try the mount/unmount commands to see if anything concerning the mount is being logged.

  • Bruce Jordan Level 1 (30 points)

    Your instincts are good.  I was just looking in the Finder window, and not seeing it.


    Apparently it does exist, but maybe I should 'own' it?  Or should I own the drive (rather than the admin account owning it) or check "Ignore ownership on this volume" in the Get Info box for the drive?

  • Frank Caggiano Level 7 (25,715 points)

    No you don't want to own it, the permissions on the .Trashes folder are actually write only for all users. The fact that the permissions are what they are might explain the behavior you are seeing. The best thing to do is to delete the /.Trashes folder that is there and let the system recreate it on mount.


    Deleteing it is going to be a bit tricky so before I recommend  a procedure I need to know how comfortable are you with the Terminal and the command line?


    Basically you will need to, from the command line, go to the root directory and using the sudo command delete the .Trashes folder.

  • léonie Level 10 (85,605 points)

    The permissions on the .Trashes on my external drives are:    d-wx-wx-wt 

    when looked in the Terminal. They are "dropboxes", no read permissions, but write and execute permissions, and the "sticky" bit is set - you will remain the owner of what you drop there.



    Apparently it does exist, but maybe I should 'own' it?


    Not necessary, if the permissions are set correctly.


    Look from the Terminal:


    Open a Terminal window, then enter:

    ls -al

    enter a space character, then drag the icon of your Raid drive into the Terminal window and hit return.


    You should see a directory listing - what are the permissions of your .Trashes?

  • Bruce Jordan Level 1 (30 points)

    Entry for the .Trashes folder:


    drwxrwxr-x@   3 SystemAdmin  staff    102 May 31 14:20 .Trashes

  • léonie Level 10 (85,605 points)

    That looks wrong. You are having all permissions, but the "Sticky" bit is missing, and I am unsure about the possile additional file attributes indicated by the "@".


    The best thing really would be to delete the .Trashes from your external drive, as recommended by Frank Caggiano.

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