Previous 1 17 18 19 20 21 Next 461 Replies Latest reply: Mar 31, 2014 3:40 PM by Marsdy Go to original post Branched to a new discussion.
  • GSVNotInventedHere Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I see your point about the GPU's....but the ease with which the outside sleeve can be removed would suggest some kind of user upgradability and that can't be just to add some more RAM.

    Has Apple done a deal with AMD to standardise the GPU seat/socket for at least 5 years?

    It would make things easier going forward.

    NIH

  • zachi Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Grant Bennet-Alder wrote:

     

    single = slower than dual.

    You could get everyone to agree if you would say MORE CPUs is faster than FEWER CPUs.

    i can agree.

    so am i allowed to compare a single processor 12 core mac pro with a dual processor 12 core pc?

    and can i criticize that apple gave up the dual processor workstation market?

    i really cant understand why you dont get my point here.

  • Grant Bennet-Alder Level 9 Level 9 (52,230 points)

    You have never made ANY sensible comparisons of that sort on this thread, only making the absurd statement that dual is better than single.

     

    There is no "dual-chip market", because "dual" in and of itself is a DIS-advantage. The number of CPUs executing at once, without restrictions such as having to wait for information from another chip, is the measure of performance.

     

    At the same clock speed and memory speed, 12 CPUs on ONE chip beats 12 CPUs on two chips any day.

  • GSVNotInventedHere Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Non of us have crystal balls but I'd like to add some points.

     

    Apple has a reputation for advanced thinking (doesn't always work, see the 20th Century Mac $7500).

     

    Intel is loosing big time to the mobile chip designer ARM and the companies that license their designs.

     

    nVidia has locked out the animation market with their CUDA tool set and people are worried that all the eggs in one basket situation is not good.

     

    Samsung make almost 95% of the flat panel screens used today in TV's,  iDevices and PC monitors not to mention alot of SoC components used in consumer electronics.

     

    Apple has decided to assemble the nMP in the USA, most electrical components will still be sourced from China, Taiwan and Korea but the chasis will be manufactoured in the US.

     

    The headline chip designs (Intel and AMD) will be by US companies.

     

    This machine is as much about design as it is about redressing the balance of component resourcing.

    NIH

  • The hatter Level 9 Level 9 (60,525 points)

    Take a dual 6-core 2.7GHz against a single socket 12-core would answer whether and by how much the 2nd socket/processor affects performance.

    Of course might have to run Windows on both to also keep it even (or linux) to actually have a motherboard you can use to compare to.

     

    ASRock already has a list of certified processors that includes some Ivy Bridge E5-26xx

    http://www.asrock.com/support/cpu.asp?s=2011

     

    Xeon E5-2697 V2 2.7 GHz looks to be what is showing up as the 12-core model.

     

    If the new Mac Pro is offered with fewer cores but a higher clock, that might be notably faster in most workloads.

    That Wikipedia table claims that there will also be CPUs with 6 cores at 3.5 GHz, 8 cores at 3.4 GHz, or 10 cores at 3.0 GHz.

     

    The hope is that Apple offers the 8-core 3.4 GHz model, because that’s probably a better choice for most buyers than this 12-core chip.2

     

    GPU power. This is overkill to just be about future desktop Retina Displays — clearly, Apple’s pushing for pro and scientific apps to shift more of the heavy lifting to OpenCL.

     

    the 6-core, 3.5 GHz E5-2643 v2. It’d probably score “only” in the 16,000 Geekbench range but be much faster than this big 12-core chip at most tasks.

     

    http://www.marco.org/2013/06/20/new-mac-pro-geekbench

     

     

    E5 2697 v2 http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Intel-Xeon%20E5-2697%20v2.html

     

     

    New Mac Pro 24K Geekbench score vs prior models

    http://mobileorchard.com/first-benchmarks-for-new-mac-pro-are-here/

  • Grant Bennet-Alder Level 9 Level 9 (52,230 points)

    It is difficult to get everyone to agree on anything as standard, unless they can see it is in their best Interests to make it so.

     

    But I think these GPUs are throwing so much heat now that cooling them by taking the next slot and filling it with roaring fans is a losing proposition.

     

    In the new design, the contact plate and the mounting screw positions chosen seem easy to accommodate -- just put the Big Chip dead center, the heat mating surface and mounting screws in the right spot, and you don't even need to include a fan.

     

    If they can get by with a heat transfer pad instead of full heatsink compound, that makes changing it an advanced amateur operation. (I think of Heatsink compound as fussy enough to be technician work).

  • The hatter Level 9 Level 9 (60,525 points)

    It is also "lop-sided" with overly powerful GPU as if a lot of work is destined to be GPGPU via OpenCL

     

    ... comes with a ridiculous amount of GPU power.  ... clearly, Apple’s pushing for pro and scientific apps to shift more of the heavy lifting to OpenCL.  http://www.marco.org/2013/06/20/new-mac-pro-geekbench

  • GSVNotInventedHere Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Aye Grant...but is that not the default average user of a MP? An advanced amateur operator or as I like to think, a pioneer. One who optimises what you have and how to keep it current for at least 3 years.

     

    Also referencing the thread ahead by 'The Hatter'....aren't alot of scientific research programmes utilising GPU downtime to advance projects for all mankind?

    NIH

  • zachi Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Grant Bennet-Alder wrote:

     

    You have never made ANY sensible comparisons of that sort on this thread, only making the absurd statement that dual is better than single.

     

    There is no "dual-chip market", because "dual" in and of itself is a DIS-advantage. The number of CPUs executing at once, without restrictions such as having to wait for information from another chip, is the measure of performance.

     

    At the same clock speed and memory speed, 12 CPUs on ONE chip beats 12 CPUs on two chips any day.

    sorry grant,  this is nonsense.

    my 2012 mac pro dual 6core is of course slower than a 2013 single 12core. but at its time there were no single 12cores available. by the end of 2013 there will be dual 12core systems (not on macs tough) and they have their reason to exist because render software uses all their power.

     

    of course i dont compare one 12 core chip to two 6 core chips !!!

    i compare one 12 core chip to two 12 core chips !!!!!!!

     

    two chip systems are not existing anymore in the apple world, thats what i criticize!

    god, is that so complicated to understand?

     

    now i m really looking forward how you defend the 2013 mac "pro" and explain to me 

    that it is still faster somehow than a dual (2x)12core pc workstation

  • Grant Bennet-Alder Level 9 Level 9 (52,230 points)

    If we can agree that "advanced amateur" is the User of these new Mac Pros, then I think it is likely they WILL have [advanced amateur] interchangeable GPU cards. They may not be quite as easy as today's PCIe slot cards.

  • zachi Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    why didnt you answer to my post above now?

    would you have to agree?

     

    and [advanced amateur] is harsh... i dont think the mac pro is not a pro machine. its probably the perfect single processor machine. very fast. up to par or probably better than any pc 12core system. if you dont render or do loads of video encoding etc, it will be perfect. (if u dont need cuda either)

     

    i'm just disappointed that there are no dual processor models

    and that the gpu wont be standard. standard is internal PCIe 16x.

    u'll never see a big choice of gpus for this mac.

  • Martin Pace Level 5 Level 5 (5,110 points)

    Grant Bennet-Alder wrote:


    What are you willing to pay for that privilege?

    I have 12-core 2010 Mac Pro, so I guess that question is answered.

    Grant Bennet-Alder wrote:

     

    At those prices, it may be superior to have two complete Mac Pros.

    Assuming you are tech savvy enough to break up your tasks to be done on multiple Macs. Of course gigabit ethernet or even fibre channel connections aren't going to be as fast as QPI.

  • Grant Bennet-Alder Level 9 Level 9 (52,230 points)

    i'm just disappointed that there are no dual processor models

    Dual-chip is NOT an advantage. You have been advocating for Dual-chip solutions without ever specifying how many processors you were talking about, just arm-waving about something that might become available in the PC world sometime.

     

    We do not know how high the Mac pro line will go. All we have seen is what they have put forward as their "placeholder" on the Professional Workstation market, and likely the minimum first new Mac Pro available.

     

    and that the gpu wont be standard. standard is internal PCIe 16x.

    floppy disks are standard as well.

     

    My discussion with GSVNotInventedHere talks about a potential new GPU standard, with a heat mating surface in a standard place, and no fan, or maybe an optional fan module.

  • Grant Bennet-Alder Level 9 Level 9 (52,230 points)

    Good point, Martin Pace!

     

    You have also brought up a beef of mine.

     

    Every Mac in the line has Gigabit Ethernet standard. Why no 10G Ethernet on this new "Flagship" ??

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