Currently Being ModeratedJun 17, 2013 5:40 AM (in response to Neil Paisnel)
Well i am goign to try this and see what hapens:
I have removed the HDD from Bay 4 (Time machine Volume) and have replaced it with a blank 500gb
Creating a clone of the Mac drive to the HDD in bay 4.
I am now copying (clone) my user folders (less big items like docs/ music/ photos/movies)
Change Start up Disk and boot from the clone.
Login in as user with account already on boot drive, in correct place
From Sys Prefs/System/Acccounts/ restore the user folder to the 'correct' location on the Boot drive.
Try and install 'over the top ' with ML and see if it keeps all my settings/mail etc, upgrades the OS, and cleans up what ever issue is causing the constant crashing and Beach ball of Death syndrome
Currently Being ModeratedJun 17, 2013 6:55 AM (in response to Neil Paisnel)
Clean install, not over the old system, then use Setup Assistant.
OS X Lion Install to Different Drive
Create an OS X Lion Install disc
CCC will also create a Recovery Partition when you do clone your Lion/ML system
How to clone your system:
Currently Being ModeratedJun 17, 2013 8:23 AM (in response to The hatter)
Thanks for all the links, a load of reading involved.
I had a system that worked easily in Windows, and had to do it every 6 to 8 months in the XP days..so I always remembered how to do it.. tha is the 'problem ' with Mac..generally so much more robust regulra re-installs are not necessary and there fore less people seem to knwo how to do them!!
I did want to go for a clean install, but since that seems to involve making alist of apps I have installed, re-installing etc..was shying away form that..although a Clena instal is a far better apporach, not bringing crap over from old system.
I did a clean install of ML when if first appeared on a seperate partition, but coudl nto find a way to transfer mail over completely to the new system..and the posts I made about that and the replies I got gave the impression that it was nto piossible and I would have to manually setup all the mail accounts again..loosing historic mails etc..whinc was not an option. 10 different mail accounst makes this a major task.
The clone system is now up and running, but one user is not working correctly. One transferred over correctly, but the other, is nto working correctly.
Well at least I have a clone system to play with now..and I reckon I'll make a clone image of that too, to save re creating it if the ML install fails.
Got called in to work ( 24/7 ambo callout) so not sure when I will be home now to continue. Coudl be two hours, could be two days.
If two days I can catch up reading the links you posted
Currently Being ModeratedJun 17, 2013 8:41 AM (in response to Neil Paisnel)
Windows - Paragon Software: Clone OS, somewhat similar tol CCC only will only do a FULL partition copy (not "smart" update kind) and the ability to 'exclude' folders never worked for me (moving large HDD to small SSD).
Going "up" from lower OS number with Mac 'should' in theory work with either Migration or Setup, but there are user account issues sometimes. Mail file index/database gets changed and altered, as does TimeMachine, no going back. Hence, the "dual boot" leave the old one alone as it is... just in case.
But do have multiple redundant backups: TM, CCC (probably two here), and start wtih a FRESH Time Machine backup drive (pull the old one).
Clean - the word - has gotten a lot of push back "we don't need to be like Windows" but there are (me) and others using CCC - and who format disk drives with the new OS. Even discussions of what the word "clean" means, believe it or not, we did, as if it was "Windows only" terminology or had no basis outside of.
Pull the old drive. Make a clean break.
I am not, would not, partition the same drive, no way. I would use a newly erased full drive and have Emergency Partition there also (and elsewhere, clone it and CCC will ask to create a 2nd Recovery Partition also, which Apple OS does not - they are a "once only").
Unlike Windows you don't need to go through much in the way of reinstalling software and drivers though.
The absence of Rosetta though strongly points to clean install to break with the past "cleanly."
The only list or spreadsheet would be those tables from MacIntouch or RoaringApps as to what version is supported, what updates the new OS requires, which you might need to do. And by dual booting you still have the security and safety of going back.
And going back so you have copy of Lion or Snow or even 10.8.3 until .4 has been working and you can update the clone too. Safety net. to play with or test.
Currently Being ModeratedJun 17, 2013 10:51 PM (in response to The hatter)
For me Rosetta is not an issue..I only came to Mac in the Intel days (2008) and have no non Intel software.
As you say keep the old system and do a clean install, but again it depends on what you call a clean install.
I can do a clean install on a clean drive, but then if I use Setup or Migration assistant, you are mucking up the clean install in my view. The only way yo do a proper clean install is fresh drive, install, and then manually setup all your apps and Mail etc. something I am not prepared to tackle yet as I do not have a few days to spare without the machine running.
Just dowloaded a real paid for version of 10.8.4 from the app store, and it is burning to disk now. I did have a torrent version of 10.8.2 to play with but now I have decided to do really instal rather than play with it I have purchased it.
My cloned system..I'll try the install on top of that first, just to see what happens. Then I'll try another instal to a clean disk and comapre systems
I have enought spare disks to slip in and try different options
Oh and totally un related..this bloody forum..It is a Mac forum yet you make a spelling mistake, right click on it as you would in the OS itself and it brings up a bloody "insert link etc ' context menu ...argg so f ..ing annoying.
Currently Being ModeratedJun 18, 2013 4:46 AM (in response to Neil Paisnel)
I started an install over the top of my clone installation, and left it, expecting to come back having to go through a Setup assistant or at least make a few choices..
But no..it was a totally un attended install. I just had to click on the relevant usernames, and log in, upgrade the mail and it all worked...to a degree.
Had to do a few Googles to find out how to get what is now called Classic mail, and also had to work out how to re enable a logon method for AFP shares on my servers..Apple have turned off support for DHCAST128 authentication
Still not sure I will use it though...will run it in parallel for a while and see what other bugs appear .
I'd like to now try a totally clean install, but not sure if it worth all the hassle. It works so leave it. The main hassle is hanging upside down behind the desk to unplug the machine, swapping the drives and putting it back togetehr each time I want to swap.
May see if I can get a firewire drive or enclosure and then I can boot from an external drive for a while, while I get used to ML, and iron out issue before unleashing it on the girlfriend.
Currently Being ModeratedJun 18, 2013 6:41 AM (in response to Neil Paisnel)
PowerPC code was still around with Intel Macs - Universal Binaries help but some programs and utilities also used Carbon code compilers.
A clean install is easy, straight forward and less trouble.
Currently Being ModeratedJun 18, 2013 1:01 PM (in response to The hatter)
I think your idea of a clean instal and mine must differ.
To me a clean instal is a total fresh instal on a clean disk, and not using any of the assistants to migrate apps and data across, but instead making a list of all the apps on the old machine, and re isnatlling them all..after downloading them all, finding the serials, re creating all the users with same UID as on old machine. Exporting all the old e-mails and folders, and setting up all the e-mail accounts again.
I tried a clean install to a SATA disk on USB adapter today, but that is way too slow, even the mouse is jerky across the screen. So have given that up.
Am back on the 10.6.8 for now, will see what i will do later once I fit another 2TB drive, I have a 115gb SSD boot drive, 1TB 'User/home folder' drive, and a 2TB 'Data' and 2TB Time machine volume. I'll replace the 1TB user drive with a 2TB .
Currently Being ModeratedJun 18, 2013 1:27 PM (in response to Neil Paisnel)
WE agree on a clean install. It is what you do afterwards that is extra... of course anything less than USB3 will be slow, even FW800 is slower.
How safe it is to migrate or use data from your TimeMachine backup depends on quality of and redundant backups. Whch is why having more than one backup sets, having cloned your system from "back when" prior to any issues causing data or system issues.
I like to see people take the cleain install, image it for safe keeping, then make any changes and test, but to go as long as possible before using MA or SA with a virgin system first. Creating a new user acccount is also another way to test and isolate issues.
Windows Easy Transfer only restores user data, not applications which forces a more laborious reinstall of every driver and application - unles you have those on a non-system drive of course and just redirect the system to them.
Currently Being ModeratedJun 18, 2013 1:49 PM (in response to The hatter)
Unfortuantely there is no way I can afford to spend the time doing a clean install, OK so the install is quick but then it coudl take days/weeks to go through and fidn and downlaod all the software again.
With Windows machines I used to do the same as you suggest..Install, and make disk image. updates and disk image, apps and disk image..updates to apps, disk image. All My Documents on seperate drive, including the Outlook mail folder.
If I ever added a new program i would install it, and see if it was suitable..if it was restore from one of my 'clean ' disk images, update..re install the new software.then create a new disk image ( Acronis ).
I never did that when I bought the Mac, as every one insisted that you never need to do a cleaninstall on the Mac OS, it is so stable so great, nothign ever goes wrong..Well maybe in the early days that was true, but now this OS is no more stable than Windows.
I woudl love to do the clean install but that woudl take jsut too long, so it is goingto be a 'cleanish' install.
I think it will be fresh install to the SSD and allow the installer to copy over all the apps, user data etc.
I know nothign of 'Windows Easy Transfer' but sound like someting I would not use. I last used Windows with XP..not looked at these other new Windows 7 or 8
Currently Being ModeratedJun 19, 2013 11:31 AM (in response to Neil Paisnel)
Problems after using Migration Assistant
Apple even includes a version of Migration Assistant for coming from a Windows computer
I never used or touched XP, which I guess is why it is hated so much, I went from CP/M and DOS (and yes there even was "DOS" back in the early days of IBM/360).
I use Windows 7 and 8 and really they aren't that far different from OS X (and there are things OS X could learn from)
Currently Being ModeratedJun 21, 2013 5:03 AM (in response to The hatter)
I was there in the CP/M and DOS days too, always stuck with Win 2k for years, going to XP only mid 2000's.
No plans to use Migration assistant, will go with the inital setup assistant. Or experiment with a way to do a clena install and see how many apps fail if I jsut drag them across from the Application folder.
When I started wtih mac, I was lead to believet that all apps were pretty much stand alone packages that did nto need an isnatller as such like Windows programs, but it woudl seem that is nto longer the case, with mac apps storign data all over the place
Currently Being ModeratedJun 22, 2013 10:26 AM (in response to Neil Paisnel)
Well I did a successful and happily fully working 10.8.4 install
But I find it such a piece of *^&^ that I have gone back to Snow Leopard 10.6.8 and its continuous crashes .
The OS itself is OK, but so many other issues...Notes, iCloud, Contacts sync'ing, Mobile Me Apple store accound ID sync'ing and migration/ merging .. Different user support with multiple accounts on pne machin e..all too much hassle
So gone back to 10.6.8...well when the 600gig Time machine restore finishes
Currently Being ModeratedJun 22, 2013 10:50 AM (in response to Neil Paisnel)
iCloud and the others you mention, the iOS and iDevice, the iOSification if you will, do have a number of problems -- was why I held off on Lion until a couple apps I needed to use req'd 10.7.5 (I have not used ML and my Mac Pro cannot). Sort of reminds me of all the push-back of Microsoft pushing Metro into Windows 8 that users (on desktops at least) cannot stand. Next week I get to look at 8.1 and have to go silent.
If there are installers, and there are for those that are not drag and drop anywhere, they have to have imperfect uninstallers and no central repository.
I spent so much time on computers for work I never wanted one in the house. Maybe remote login so I didn't have to drive into work at night or weekends, sure, or during a snow storm, but Windows NT didn't sound promising... I was rooting for IBM's OS2/Warp, or IBM PC/370 /3270 (they were "ideas" and not intended to market but some found them facinating and worth $7,000 - my boss was flaburgasted at the $10,000 Apple offering!)
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