John Howarth
Level 1 (45 points)

Q: A simple extension with Airport Express won't work

This question concerns two 1st gen Expresses, working with a contemporary OS10.5.8.  I have an Airport Express A1264(n) providing a wi-fi network.  I wish to extend this with a second (older) AE A1084(g).  I am using Airport Utility 5.6.1.  The A1264 is set to create a base station compatible with b/g wi-fi.

 

Firmware on the 1264 is 7.6.3, and on the 1084 is 6.3.  These are both fully up-to-date, I believe. 

 

I have set up the A1084 to "join a wireless network"  (the option to "extend a wireless network", as described in Apple's online help, does not exist for me).  The newly set-up A1084, which is plugged in at the further end of the existing wi-fi coverage, is detected by Airport Utility and shows up in the list of devices, and the unit itself shows a constant green light, BUT, the network is not extended beyond that distance at all.

 

I tried downgrading the firmware on the newer Express to 7.6.1, but this had no effect on anything.

 

Something, somewhere, is clearly not happening.

MacPro 2.8Ghz 8-core, MacBook Pro 15", Mac OS X (10.5.8)

Posted on Jun 24, 2013 4:51 PM

by John Galt,Solvedanswer
John Galt John Galt
Level 8 (49,522 points)
Mac OS X
A:

Yes a Wireless Distribution System is an option, but it has simply awful effects on wireless throughput. Each additional base station reduces available bandwidth over 50%. Therefore if your ISP delivers 20 Mbps adding one WDS remote reduces it to below 10 Mbps, less "overhead". Adding a WDS relay reduces that to below 5 Mbps and those are the theoretical maximum speeds never realized in practice anyway.

 

This will hold true for all clients, whether they connect to the "main", "relay", or "remote" since they must all be occupying the same wireless channel.

 

It gets worse, because configuring a WDS is a tedious exercise even for experienced users, and you follow its instructions to the letter: Wi-Fi base stations: Setting up and configuring a Wireless Distribution System (802.11b/g)

 

WDS and "wirelessly extend" resemble each other somewhat, but 802.11n implements it in a way that overcomes WDS's disadvantages. It also addressed many other 802.11b/g deficiencies, works great for most people right now today, but it's already going to be supplanted by 802.11ac.

 

The Wi-Fi Alliance never certified an official standard for WDS and I believe Apple would prefer that it never existed in the first place.

Posted on Jun 24, 2013 5:50 PM

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John Howarth

Q: A simple extension with Airport Express won't work

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  • Helpful answers

  • by John Galt,

    John Galt John Galt Jun 24, 2013 5:08 PM in response to John Howarth
    Level 8 (49,522 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jun 24, 2013 5:08 PM in response to John Howarth

    I have set up the A1084 to "join a wireless network"  (the option to "extend a wireless network", as described in Apple's online help, does not exist for me). 

     

    Nor will it, since you can only "wirelessly extend" an 802.11n network. Read Wi-Fi base stations: Setting up and configuring an extended wireless network (802.11n)

     

    Note 802.11n in the title and everywhere else:

     

    Summary

     

    This article explains how to set up an 802.11n extended wireless network.

     

    Products Affected

     

    AirPort Express 802.11n (1st Generation), AirPort Extreme 802.11n (1st Generation), AirPort Extreme 802.11n (3rd Generation), Time Capsule 802.11n (1st Generation), Time Capsule 802.11n (2nd Generation), Time Capsule 802.11n (3rd Generation)

     

    The older 802.11b/g only models are capable of "extending" a network using Ethernet and are not mentioned in the article at all.

     

    To "extend" a network using a A1084 Express requires a "roaming network".

     

    Yes your firmware is fully up to date but your model Express was discontinued over five years ago, quite a while as wireless technology goes.


  • by John Howarth,

    John Howarth John Howarth Jun 24, 2013 5:13 PM in response to John Galt
    Level 1 (45 points)
    Jun 24, 2013 5:13 PM in response to John Galt

    So how should I interpret the diagram and description in the 1084 user manual, showing an Airport Express extending the range of another Airport Express, using a "Wireless Distribution System"?  Or does that only apply to two older, non 'n' models?

  • by John Galt,Solvedanswer

    John Galt John Galt Jun 24, 2013 5:50 PM in response to John Howarth
    Level 8 (49,522 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jun 24, 2013 5:50 PM in response to John Howarth

    Yes a Wireless Distribution System is an option, but it has simply awful effects on wireless throughput. Each additional base station reduces available bandwidth over 50%. Therefore if your ISP delivers 20 Mbps adding one WDS remote reduces it to below 10 Mbps, less "overhead". Adding a WDS relay reduces that to below 5 Mbps and those are the theoretical maximum speeds never realized in practice anyway.

     

    This will hold true for all clients, whether they connect to the "main", "relay", or "remote" since they must all be occupying the same wireless channel.

     

    It gets worse, because configuring a WDS is a tedious exercise even for experienced users, and you follow its instructions to the letter: Wi-Fi base stations: Setting up and configuring a Wireless Distribution System (802.11b/g)

     

    WDS and "wirelessly extend" resemble each other somewhat, but 802.11n implements it in a way that overcomes WDS's disadvantages. It also addressed many other 802.11b/g deficiencies, works great for most people right now today, but it's already going to be supplanted by 802.11ac.

     

    The Wi-Fi Alliance never certified an official standard for WDS and I believe Apple would prefer that it never existed in the first place.

  • by John Howarth,

    John Howarth John Howarth Jun 24, 2013 6:04 PM in response to John Galt
    Level 1 (45 points)
    Jun 24, 2013 6:04 PM in response to John Galt

    Thank you for your thorough explanation.  I got more sense out of your reply than I did from a couple of days scouring the Apple site for help and advice.  Clearly the descriptions in my old Airport Express manual were a little optimistic.

     

    John