User profile for user: Crows2012
Crows2012 Author
User level: Level 1
14 points

archiving cds and why do i need id3 tags

here comes another one of those questions looking at which codec to use to store music.....i also have tag questions.....


i'm about to (re-)rip my cd collection and looking at some info re codecs and id3 tags



now.....i believe i understand the benefits of alac (lower file sizes, keeping id3 tags, lossless compression) v wav(no compression)

however (and for some out there) if we just entertain the fact that wav may have some minute benefit for me depending on my questions and answers given.....and yes i know wav and alac will sound the same to the human ear - i accept that as a given of lossless compression 🙂......



points i'd like to outline:


i am looking to rip my cds, firstly and mostly, for an archiving purpose!! purpose numero uno!!

i could well want to re-create cds with these archived records in the future

size of files is of no concern to me at all

i'm using a mac nowadays


i will convert most of these files, where needed, to use with a portable music player (i'm not bothered with having, say a wav file and then also converting and having an alac file, as crazy as that sounds)





this is where i ask for info re the benefits of embedded tags that are found in alac:

are these tags that important?

where do they come into play in ripping and later converting music?

are these uses just bells and whistles that have no benefit to my needs?


if i rip cds to wav (or aiff), say, using itunes, will cd info and track listings be available on the downloading database (eg itunes) to name these wav files?

if i then ensure these song files are kept under the album's folder, have i just done what tags do? surely not. that is all i have needed in the past.

this is where i feel i may be really missing what id tags (can) do


are tags more than just managing song files and where they belong and where they have come from?

is it just a convenience of not personally managing your song files (as per previous paragraph)?



(in the past i had ripped cds to mp3 codec. i think i used "cd rip" or something like that on my pc.

my mp3 files were individually named and sorted and kept under album folders under artist name folders.

apart form the very odd occasion all track and album info i needed was found on a database that was attached to the ripping software.

i never had a problem managing/maintaining these files and folders.)




i welcome some enlightenment on some of my questions above and other info that may be relevant


and yes, i understand that music will sound the same as a wav file or alac file - but humour me re using wav and tell me why i need id3 tags



i guess the crux of it is:


why do i need id3 tags?

does my managing of my song file in the album folder do what tags do?

what problems/shortcomings/headaches may i encounter by not having those tags if i use wav as opposed to alac?

what do i not know about these little buggers?


what codec is best for my purpose of archiving and re creating of cds (for playing in cd players)



thanks in advance for your input and any clarity that i may experience through this

peter t


excuse my long windedness (i have spent some time editing this entry)

iMac

Posted on Jul 5, 2013 6:09 AM

Reply
9 replies
User profile for user: Michael Allbritton
Michael Allbritton
User level: Level 6
16,963 points

Jul 5, 2013 7:19 AM in response to Crows2012

Crows2012 wrote:


why do i need id3 tags?

does my managing of my song file in the album folder do what tags do?

what problems/shortcomings/headaches may i encounter by not having those tags if i use wav as opposed to alac?

what do i not know about these little buggers?


what codec is best for my purpose of archiving and re creating of cds (for playing in cd players)

First and foremost: Rip as ALAC. No question. Lower file sizes and lossless compression. Really, there's no question.


Now as to your question about why ID3 tags are important and why I believe you should use ALAC. Let's say you have ripped 6 CD albums by 6 different artists to WAV (which we know do not support embedded ID3 tags, but AIFF does). You've got these WAV files all nicely tagged in iTunes. Then you move those 6 albums by 6 different artitsts to a new computer and add them to the iTunes library. Since the files do not support embedded ID3 tags you now have a bunch of untagged music files that you have no way to tell apart. Using iTunes "get CD track names" command won't work in this case because you didn't rip the files with this instance of iTunes. So ID3 tags are important for portability. As I mentioned the AIFF container does support embedded ID3 tags, but the files are the same size as WAV files. So, again, ALAC will save you room in the future. In my opinion there is no compelling reason for you to use WAV/AIFF over ALAC. All three file types are lossless and there will be no difference in the sound of the music.

Reply
User profile for user: Crows2012
Crows2012 Author
User level: Level 1
14 points

Jul 5, 2013 8:04 AM in response to Michael Allbritton

Hi Michael



Now as to your question about why ID3 tags are important and why I believe you should use ALAC. Let's say you have ripped 6 CD albums by 6 different artists to WAV (which we know do not support embedded ID3 tags, but AIFF does). You've got these WAV files all nicely tagged in iTunes. Then you move those 6 albums by 6 different artitsts to a new computer and add them to the iTunes library. Since the files do not support embedded ID3 tags you now have a bunch of untagged music files that you have no way to tell apart. Using iTunes "get CD track names" command won't work in this case because you didn't rip the files with this instance of iTunes. So ID3 tags are important for portability.


thanks for that - i am having one of those "ahhhhh...now i get it moments".


i imported PREVIOUSLY ripped cds (mp3 format - off my previous pc) into itunes a couple of months back and itunes appears with info on these tracks.


(putting my ignorance aside if i may) is the ONLY reason track listings, art work and album listings came up in itunes the fact that mp3 has tags?? makes sense to me now that i think of it, if that is the case.


as mentioned earlier if i just have songs (wav) in album folders, when i import these albums into itunes, do you know if these will come up under AN album with their file names purely using my filename setup (but with no artwork)?


also, does aiff have limitations (apart from the full size of the file)?


and how do these codecs work re-creating an album for the purposes of playing in a cd player? - this is a crucial question for the purpose of my archiving/backup of CDs THEMSELVES


cheers

peter t

Reply
User profile for user: Michael Allbritton
Michael Allbritton
User level: Level 6
16,963 points

Jul 5, 2013 8:34 AM in response to Crows2012

Crows2012 wrote:


i imported PREVIOUSLY ripped cds (mp3 format - off my previous pc) into itunes a couple of months back and itunes appears with info on these tracks.

Yes, the ID3 tags are embedded in the MP3 files so when you add them to an iTunes library on a new computer iTunes reads the tags.


Crows2012 wrote:


(putting my ignorance aside if i may) is the ONLY reason track listings, art work and album listings came up in itunes the fact that mp3 has tags?? makes sense to me now that i think of it, if that is the case.

Yes.


Crows2012 wrote:


as mentioned earlier if i just have songs (wav) in album folders, when i import these albums into itunes, do you know if these will come up under AN album with their file names purely using my filename setup (but with no artwork)?

Yes, iTunes will read the filename, such as "Track 1" or something else and display it. But nothing else. No Album or Artist.


Crows2012 wrote:


also, does aiff have limitations (apart from the full size of the file)?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. For all practical purposes AIFF and WAV are exactly the same thing. They're just file containers.


Crows2012 wrote:


and how do these codecs work re-creating an album for the purposes of playing in a cd player? - this is a crucial question for the purpose of my archiving/backup of CDs THEMSELVES

That's actually going to depend on what burning software you use. Once you rip the tracks to whatever file container you choose (WAV/AIFF/ALAC) you'll never really exactly re-create the album. But for archiving purposes all three file containers will do what you want, which is to create a lossless archive. AIFF has the advantage of supporting embedded ID3, which ALAC has the additional advantage of the files also being about half the size of AIFF/WAV files.

Reply
User profile for user: Crows2012
Crows2012 Author
User level: Level 1
14 points

Jul 5, 2013 9:29 AM in response to Michael Allbritton



Crows2012 wrote:


as mentioned earlier if i just have songs (wav) in album folders, when i import these albums into itunes, do you know if these will come up under AN album with their file names purely using my filename setup (but with no artwork)?

Yes, iTunes will read the filename, such as "Track 1" or something else and display it. But nothing else. No Album or Artist.


so the tracks will remain grouped as an album based on their initial folder and the albums and tracks as per file name?

Crows2012 wrote:


also, does aiff have limitations (apart from the full size of the file)?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. For all practical purposes AIFF and WAV are exactly the same thing. They're just file containers.

i thought that i had read somewhere that aiff tags could run into some issues with its tags - ie may not always be transferred 100% accurately with certain players (or hardware maybe)

Crows2012 wrote:


and how do these codecs work re-creating an album for the purposes of playing in a cd player? - this is a crucial question for the purpose of my archiving/backup of CDs THEMSELVES

That's actually going to depend on what burning software you use. Once you rip the tracks to whatever file container you choose (WAV/AIFF/ALAC) you'll never really exactly re-create the album. But for archiving purposes all three file containers will do what you want, which is to create a lossless archive. AIFF has the advantage of supporting embedded ID3, which ALAC has the additional advantage of the files also being about half the size of AIFF/WAV files.

i was thinking that maybe wav was able to recreate an album (in effect duplicate one) if my cd was lost or damaged in the future. i was thinking this IF when ripping to wav everything is unchanged (unless there is other data on the original cd). and maybe only possible with wav. the purpose for this would be to play recreated cds on my cd player


any idea on this one?


(i havent looked too thoroughly on this angle but i'll keep googling on this one)



much appreciate all info thus far

peter t

Reply
User profile for user: Michael Allbritton
Michael Allbritton
User level: Level 6
16,963 points

Jul 5, 2013 9:59 AM in response to Crows2012

Crows2012 wrote:

so the tracks will remain grouped as an album based on their initial folder and the albums and tracks as per file name?

Whoops, sorry, no. If there are no embedded ID3 when the tracks are added to iTunes then the only thing iTunes will read is the file name. All the other tags will be blank. If, on the other hand, you mean with the tracks still be organized by folders in the Finder the answer is yes.


Crows2012 wrote:


i thought that i had read somewhere that aiff tags could run into some issues with its tags - ie may not always be transferred 100% accurately with certain players (or hardware maybe)

That's certainly possible, I suppose. Another reason to use ALAC over AIFF, then. 😉


Crows2012 wrote:

i was thinking that maybe wav was able to recreate an album (in effect duplicate one) if my cd was lost or damaged in the future. i was thinking this IF when ripping to wav everything is unchanged (unless there is other data on the original cd). and maybe only possible with wav. the purpose for this would be to play recreated cds on my cd player

I think the only real issue you'd come across is the spacing on the burned disc verses the original disc. The music will be the same, though. The only way to make an exact copy of the disc is to burn a copy directly from the disc, which isn't what you want to do. Having said that, in my opinion, if you rip a disc to ALAC with all the correct tags and keep it in iTunes, if you decide to burn a new CD a few years down the road I doubt you would be able to hear the difference if you were to listen to them side by side.

Reply

This thread has been closed by the system or the community team. You may vote for any posts you find helpful, or search the Community for additional answers.

archiving cds and why do i need id3 tags

Welcome to Apple Support Community
A forum where Apple customers help each other with their products. Get started with your Apple Account.
Learn more Sign up