Previous 1 2 Next 22 Replies Latest reply: Jul 20, 2013 12:06 PM by Ralph Johns (UK)
ixtract.de Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

Hi there,

 

when i start a conversation via Bonjour with Messages on Mountain Lion 10.8.4 there is a strange behaviour (since i deleted some conversations):

 

The chat with a a person is just one row but without any picture or content anymore. After i double click this person in the friends menue sometimes the chat appears suddenly in the main window again, but sometimes with former content and more often woithout any content. if i now start to chat nothing will show, even the message is sent to the friend. i only can see the chat by double clicking the friends-tab in the main window, another window opens and ther ist the whole content of the conversations.

 

So it seems Messages is broken somehow or some prefs? But what did i try to repair it: Deleted all ichat files in my personal preferences, the saves application state and the Messages folder within ma personal Library folder.

 

And i reinstalled the whole OSX again! Didn't help...

 

So any idea what i can do? Rights to write and read are set right...

 

Thanx for your help!

Bildschirmfoto 2013-07-11 um 19.29.10.jpg

Bildschirmfoto 2013-07-11 um 19.28.52.jpg

 

Bildschirmfoto 2013-07-11 um 19.29.29.jpg


iworks - Numbers, Mac OS X (10.6.7)
  • Ralph Johns (UK) Level 9 Level 9 (70,005 points)

    Hi,

     

    I am not sure that you are not seeing the normal function of Messages.

     

    If you delete ~/Library/Messages you will delete the archive folder it contains which is where Saved Chats are placed.

     

    If you deleted the "history" then Messages cannot display it.

     

    If you leave Messages with some Chats in the list then it will Save parts of those chats that are relevant for that day - you may only see part of what you think is a conversation/Chat.

    However Double clicking may bring up a Recent Chat which shows more.

     

    Also have you tried Scrolling the chat up/backwards in time ?

    This sometimes reveals more of the "history".

     

     

     

    3Sigcopy2.png
    9:37 PM      Thursday; July 11, 2013

     

      iMac 2.5Ghz 5i 2011 (Mountain Lion 10.8.4)
     G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
     MacBookPro 2Gb (Snow Leopard 10.6.8)
     Mac OS X (10.6.8),
     Couple of iPhones and an iPad

    "Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."  No, Seriously

  • ixtract.de Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Hi Ralph,

     

    i did not delete the files and restarted Messages. I thought some archivied files would be corrupt and when they where deleted maybe the new created ones would work again, but that was not the case. We use 10 different computers here and as all of them work in a proper way different to that computer (and like expected) i think thsi is no regular behaviour. Did you have a look at the screenshots? It's not normal that a once detected chat (with icon of the user) disappears and shows only a blank gray tile. There should still be the chat cion with a mark "offline". But that's not the case.

    It's even no proper behaviour, that the content dissapers... so my question is more like what can i do to repair the App?

  • ixtract.de Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    The arrows in the screenshots show the blank tiles which refer to the old friends in the main window, which are visible in the other pictures. It seems that the App does store the content still but looses the connection to the stored files! I don't know why it losses this connection, maybe some kind of corrupt marker? File path? Writing rights? ...

  • Ralph Johns (UK) Level 9 Level 9 (70,005 points)

    Hi,

     

    I did study the Screen Shots as well as studying the post to see if I could work out what you were doing.

     

    I could not quite work out what the arrows were supposed to be showing.

     

    In System Preferences > General pane I have the Server, Documents and Apps set to 20 items.

    This in turn means an App like Messages will have 20 items in the Recents Lists.

     

    I launched iChat 5 on my Snow Leopard (MacBook Pro) and started a Bonjour Chat with my iMac (Messages)

    Like you I was expecting it so show a "History" after sending the first message back and forth.

    However this did not happen and on checking my Recents Lists It seems the last "chatting to self" I did was more than 20 chats ago.

     

    I can open much older chats by going to the Archive Folder and launching them.

    They appear in separate windows (not in the Main Messages window).

    Where I have left a Chat in the Messages window and then shut the App and the computer I have saved chats that have parts of the "same" chat.  (I was looking at an AIM chat).

     

    I loaded up the individual (well two of the days) in separate windows.

    Next to that the "whole" conversation" over several days (And AIM, Jabber and iMessages attempts) appears in the Messages window

    Days.png

    The 17th (top Left) relates to the part on show in the main Messages window (both in red boxes).

    The 17th window is scrollable and there is more that is on show.

    The same is true of the top of the 18th (Bottom left pic) where the scroll bar indicator is at the top (blue arrow)

     

    AS you can see all the "history" shows in the Main Messages Window (Right hand pic) and the Scroll bar indicator is only a 1/3 of the way down.

     

    I have not been able to find one right now but if I had spoken to this person on the 20th but not the 19th the 19th one would have been blank as nothing new has been saved. (however it saves as you close the app and the chat or conversation is still in place in the Messages window).

     

    In your last pic this seems to be part of what is going on.

    Bonjour window.png

     

    I understand that the first two pics you posted show something different.

     

    However the first pic means nothing.

    New Message.png

    Can you confirm that in Pic 2 that when you separate out that chat in to it's own Window, that the Main Messages window does not show the subsequent IMs ?

     

    I created the Separate window and sent IMs over Bonjour to the iMac but they appeared in both windows

    Screen Shot 2013-07-12 at 21.24.42.png

    (yes I have the same Buddy pic on both computers)

     

    I don't think the app is not finding the Archive Folder as the Chats are displaying in some windows.

     

    I am not understanding what you are trying to say about restarting the app and having New Messages show up (although I think you are trying to tell me that they were conversations that were there before that disappear)

     

    Try Restarting the Computer is Safe Mode

    After doing this and testing Messages Restart the computer normally.

     

     

     

     

    3Sigcopy2.png
    9:33 pm      Friday; July 12, 2013

     

      iMac 2.5Ghz 5i 2011 (Mountain Lion 10.8.4)
     G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
     MacBookPro 2Gb (Snow Leopard 10.6.8)
     Mac OS X (10.6.8),
     Couple of iPhones and an iPad

    "Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."  No, Seriously

  • ixtract.de Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    HI ralph,

     

    thanks a lot for your answer! So despite your idea that the first pic means nothing, it underlines what's really going on: both blank parts marked "Neue Nachricht" are no new message. These are the chats to the right (the friends window) wich disappear after restarting messages. Sometimes when one of the persons of this two chats write me a post, then suddenly the blank chat turns in that chat of this persons (it appears  at the special place the arrow from this person points to) and all of his former messages are visible again. But: only sometimes...

    Sometimes the chat behaves normal while i start a new one in messages and after i closed the app and reopened it the whole conversation turns in a blank one. So it dos not completely disapear, but a blank chat remains in the main window without any content.

     

    When i got to the archive and opened last chats manually, i can see these chats as a new window opens in messages. This is why i think messages looses somehow the connection between stored archive files and the current main window...

     

    Can you confirm that in Pic 2 that when you separate out that chat in to it's own Window, that the Main Messages window does not show the subsequent IMs ?

     

    Yes exactly. And it is even more crazy: Both windows show different content of the same day! sometimes i write a message and i can't see it in the main window! Only when i double click the IM of the person and the new window opens to the left, everything i wrote and he wrote is visible! That's really curious...

     

    I will try to restart in safe mode and get back to you.

     

    (Everything you described is a normal expected behaviour, which i expect to act like it does on all of our other computers, too) but each of my screenshots shows actually a very different result here, even it should show the same things as you can see in your programm.

     

    In all i am searching for is a way to set up messages again to work in that proper mode... as there is no easy "reinstall" possibility.... an reinstalling OSX didn' t sovle the problem...

     

     

    Best

  • Ralph Johns (UK) Level 9 Level 9 (70,005 points)

    Hi.

     

     

    Can you confirm that in Pic 2 that when you separate out that chat in to it's own Window, that the Main Messages window does not show the subsequent IMs ?

     

    Yes exactly. And it is even more crazy: Both windows show different content of the same day! sometimes i write a message and i can't see it in the main window! Only when i double click the IM of the person and the new window opens to the left, everything i wrote and he wrote is visible! That's really curious...


    Ok.

    Three ways to Save Chats - or rather three points in time that it happens.

     

    1) When you mouse across the open chat in the Messages window and use the small grey "X" that shows up.

     

    2) When you reach the end of the day and shut down the App.

     

    3) At any point during the day when you close and restart the app.

     

    This could mean that there are several "Saved Chats" even from the same day.

    (And some of them may be blank if the person or you never sent an IM.)

     

     

    Regarding the first pic again.

     

    So despite your idea that the first pic means nothing, it underlines what's really going on: both blank parts marked "Neue Nachricht" are no new message. These are the chats to the right (the friends window) which disappear after restarting messages. Sometimes when one of the persons of this two chats write me a post, then suddenly the blank chat turns in that chat of this persons (it appears  at the special place the arrow from this person points to) and all of his former messages are visible again. But: only sometimes...

     

    The Messages shows the German equivalent of "New Message"  (which really mean new chat anyway) and on starting the App that, when last Open, had two Bonjour Chats going on but on restart lists then as "New Messages" and has no Buddy linked to them.

     

    To a certain extent I can replicate this.

    No  New Message (i.e. nothing sent from anywhere)

    Screen Shot 2013-07-13 at 19.58.50.png

    When I Opened Messages I got this window and a Separate Bonjour Chat window that was also empty.

    However then I sent an IM from the MacBook Pro  ("Hello on the 13th")

    Both the chat windows I had open then filled in the most recent chats (Yesterday in this case)Screen Shot 2013-07-13 at 20.05.50.png

     

    The other thing is I don't lose the names of the Bonjour Buddies involved.

     

    DO the Buddies computers show up as Shares in the finder Window ?

    Screen Shot 2013-07-13 at 20.07.51 2.png

    This should show their Computer Name's (Ralph Johns' Computer for my G4 tower for example)

    The Bonjour Chat should show their Name which is held in the My Card in the Contacts/Address Book App.  (as in my first blank chat pic shows Bonjour with ralphjoohns@ralphg4 )

     

    If these computers are not showing up in Shares then you may not be able to reslove the Bonjour Chat names either at certain points in time.

    This is most likely a local DNS issue if you cannot resolve names.

    Check that the computers all have the same DNS settings.

     

     

    3Sigcopy2.png
    8:18 pm      Saturday; July 13, 2013

     

      iMac 2.5Ghz 5i 2011 (Mountain Lion 10.8.4)
     G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
     MacBookPro 2Gb (Snow Leopard 10.6.8)
     Mac OS X (10.6.8),
     Couple of iPhones and an iPad

    "Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."  No, Seriously

  • ixtract.de Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Hi Ralph,

     

    all you described is something i know. It's the normal behaviour of Messages.

    Even if you have an emty chat e.g. you can at least see the icons of the persons! When you have a look at my screenshots you see no icons anymore... but i repeat myself now.

     

    Bonjour ist all right, but Messages, the App itself is somehow corrupt. That's the problem.

    This is what i tried to described the whole time. Now i don't know how to express it anymore in other words.

     

    I know how to handle Messages and i just want to know how i can repair it. Are there any files i could try to delete which are not stored in ~/Library/Preferences or in ~/Library/Messages/ ? Because i tried to delete these user-related files already in the hope to get a working Messages-App again. But that was not the case.

    I reinstalled OSX to trie to get messages work properly again, but it didn't help.

    So i don't know which files could be causing the issues i described?

     

    So if you have an idea how to fix the app i would be really appreciate it. But i know how messages works and how it should work. It's no matter of wrong use. The programm is corrupt with one special user on one special computer...

     

    Best

  • Ralph Johns (UK) Level 9 Level 9 (70,005 points)

    HI,

     

    You said.

     

    all you described is something i know. It's the normal behaviour of Messages.

    Even if you have an emty chat e.g. you can at least see the icons of the persons! When you have a look at my screenshots you see no icons anymore... but i repeat myself now.

     

     

    I had posted.

     

    To a certain extent I can replicate this. ...

     

    ... The other thing is I don't lose the names of the Bonjour Buddies involved.

     

     

    I had explained what I had to tried to replicate  your  pic.  (which is the normal function).

    I have know idea about what you do or don't know.  I can't  look over your shoulder from here.

    I can only work with what you post.

     

    My conclusion was that the issue could lie outside of the Messages app, in that IDs that are normally Broadcast from elsewhere were not in fact being resolved.

     

    As you have Reinstalled the whole OS you have replaced the whole of Messages as well during that process.

    Deleting the .plists cures any issues that occure because they are corrupt when they are recreated next time you launch the app.

     

    When I restart my App after leaving a Bonjour Chat On show I get this:-

    Screen Shot 2013-07-14 at 7.34.34 PM.png

    The middle of the chat part of the Messages Window identifies the "Buddy" that I was connected to.

    It lists the Shortname  of the Logged in Account on the computer called ralphg4

     

    I have an Address Card for Ralph G4 in my Contacts app.

    Address card.png

     

    In My Chats and the Pics I posted the "To" spot of the Chat window is also filled in.

    My App can tell that ralphjohns@ralphg4 is Ralph G4  even before any new IMs in the chat are sent.

     

    That leaves two options as far as I can tell.

    1) the computer is not resolving mDNS info  (mDNS is Multicast DNS = Bonjour and since Leopard has required that the Macs DNS server set be On) http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3789

     

    2) There is a computer naming issue.

     

     

    Regarding 1)

    Either port 5353 is blocked to Local traffic in the router in which case no Shared Bonjour computers would show up in the Finder

    Or DNS is Off which would be causing other issues over the internet.

     

    Possibly com.apple.iChat.Subnet.plist could be the issue as it technically holds the "Logged in State"  of the Bonjour account in Messages and iChat.

    In fact my iMac/Messages one comes from a Migration of my Mac User Account from the G4 and reads

    Subnet.plist.png

    It seems it is Identifying me as ralphjohns@ralphg4 as well.

     

    That would suggest the App/computer broadcasts a Mac User Login identifier up until a Chat is started at which point the Buddy's Address Book/Contacts App > My Card info is broadcast.

    Mousing over the Buddy list shows the Computer/User ID and List shows their Address Book Name

    Screen Shot 2013-07-14 at 8.04.19 PM.png

     

    On the G4 I have Address Cards for  PC AIM Account, the Mac Book Pro and the My Card

    Address Book g4-2.png

     

    On the G4  I am "Ralph G4".  (the Pics don't match as I changed the iChat Buddy pic)

     

    Somewhere in the link between the DNS (mDNS) and the Contacts app the Bonjour identifier is resolved into the "Real Name" from their Address Book.

     

    You posted:-

     

    Bonjour ist all right,

     

    This actually tells me nothing.

    I does not tell me if you did not check the Finder windows to check if they showed up as you don't  believe this is connected (It seems to be implied by the bit that followed)

    It doess not tell me what you did actually do to test the Bonjour Link was working.

     

    Summary.

    I get the fact that something about your app or at least the way it presents itself is not right.

    Having tried to replicate your first Pic my judgement is that the issue is not with the App itself  (you have Reinstalled and deleted .plists and therefore excluded problems from those sources).

     

    If you are not showing the Bonjour identifier or the Buddy  Pic then the computer is not resolving that Buddy name  (It does not rely on your Contacts App as the My Cards from the Buddy is sent as the "Real Name")

    For Instance My MacBook Pro does not have an Address Card for the G4

    MacBook Pro.png

     

    I hope with the last section about a small part of your post about "Bonjour being Ok" demonstrates the lack of info you post about some  things.

     


    Regarding 2)

     

    This relates to Cloning the computer Hard Drive and placing it on another computer.

     

    This can mean that in System Preferences > Sharing the Name of the computer is the same on two computers

    It can also happen if like me you sign in as the First Run Admin Account under the Same Name which then becomes the computer name  (all my computers became "Ralph Johnss Computer" (yes it can't cope with names ending in "s")

    The iMac has been changed to this.

     

    Screen Shot 2013-07-14 at 8.45.21 PM.png

    I hope I have been a little clearer myself as to the thought processes that led me to my earlier post.

     

     

     

    3Sigcopy2.png
    8:50 PM      Sunday; July 14, 2013

     

      iMac 2.5Ghz 5i 2011 (Mountain Lion 10.8.4)
     G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
     MacBookPro 2Gb (Snow Leopard 10.6.8)
     Mac OS X (10.6.8),
     Couple of iPhones and an iPad

    "Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."  No, Seriously

  • ixtract.de Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Hi Ralph,

     

    thanks again for your loads of time you are spending on trying to help me with my issue!

     

    So i now want to answer each of your questions directly:

     

    a) When i klick on the Person in the main window once they are visible there, it's clearly identified with it's shortname and the connected computer with @ and computername. This computer shows up in the shared section of the finder window, too.

     

    1) mDNS is being resolved

     

    2) there is no identical computername within our network

     

    To a certain extent I can replicate this.

     

    No  New Message (i.e. nothing sent from anywhere)

    But your Buddys stay in the left column with their icons. Only the chats are empty. But in my case the Buddies are being replaced with a blank, new messages tab. Only after clicking the Buddy in the friends window changes the blank new messages tab into the Buddies tab. That not usual.

     

     

    3) I started in safe mode, but it had no effect.

     

    4) All other user-accounts at this computer work fine and like your testings.

     

    So i somehow think the problem deals with special user-related files and some files i did not delete / restore with my trys.

    I hope there is still another way than  to set up this special user-account completly new…

     

    Best and thanx again for your time.

  • Ralph Johns (UK) Level 9 Level 9 (70,005 points)

    HI,

     

    Lets try sorting out a common set of words for this bit.

     

    But in my case the Buddies are being replaced with a blank, new messages tab. Only after clicking the Buddy in the friends window changes the blank new messages tab into the Buddies tab. That not usual.

     

    Yep. I got that the Main Window for Messages shows blank people (Head and Shoulders)  icons and "New Messages" (which is wrong and the thing I can't replicate)  as per you first pic.

     

    After clicking a Buddy in the Buddy List (friends window)... changes what is showing as "New Messages" and the Head and Shoulders icons to the Buddies icons ?

     

    The Messages app knows there should be Chats displayed but does not show who they are.

    Clicking a Buddy in the Buddy List seems to resolve this partly - there then seems to be an issue with how much of the chat is shown.

     

    Can you do the following 1 bit at a time please.

    1) Do the chats show in the Recent Items  (File Menu ) when you start up Messages (before clicking the Buddies) ?
    If No does anything populate this List ?
    IF Yes, Post back results  (well post back anyway)

     

    2) Go to ~/Library/Preferences and delete just com.apple.ichat.Subnet.plist and restart Messages.

    Does this improve things ?

    If yes, Stop.

     

    3) In the same folder delete com.apple.imagent.plist and restart the whole computer (IMAgent starts when the computer does)

    Does this Improve things ?

    If Yes, then Stop.

     

    4) If nothing has worked so far then delete com.apple.ichat.plist itself.

    On restarting Messages  you may need to reset some settings in the Messages > Preferences (Font, Colour etc. in the Messages Section. Saved Chats in the same pane.) and so on.

    Some menu items such as the IM/iMessages style and Show Smilies will need resetting

     

    Restart Messages and report findings please.

     

     

     

     

    3Sigcopy2.png
    9:53 PM      Monday; July 15, 2013

     

      iMac 2.5Ghz 5i 2011 (Mountain Lion 10.8.4)
     G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
     MacBookPro 2Gb (Snow Leopard 10.6.8)
     Mac OS X (10.6.8),
     Couple of iPhones and an iPad

    "Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."  No, Seriously

  • ixtract.de Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    --

  • Ralph Johns (UK) Level 9 Level 9 (70,005 points)

    HI,


    So you have the equivalent of:-

    recent Lists.png

     

    So yo only have some of the .plists:-

    plists.png

    The ones with the hexadecimal like numbers added to them are used if you are using a network book otherwise they are ignored.

    I notice that my Subnet one has a date close to the imported com.apple.ichatAgent.plist (forerunner to IMAgent so I am wondering if Messages uses it any more.

     

    Possibly this one line in the com.apple.ichat.plist refers to the Bonjour account

    Screen Shot 2013-07-16 at 8.25.14 PM.png

    (it's quite near the bottom of the amount of stuff in my .plist)

     

    The app will not work if the com.apple.IMAgent.plist is not there.

     

    Can you Open Activity Monitor in Applications/Utilities and see if imagent is running (it will be in lower case and have no icon) ?

    It is likely to appear close to the Finder as it starts up when the computer does

    Screen Shot 2013-07-16 at 8.34.48 PM.png

     

     

     

    3Sigcopy2.png
    8:36 PM      Tuesday; July 16, 2013

     

      iMac 2.5Ghz 5i 2011 (Mountain Lion 10.8.4)
     G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
     MacBookPro 2Gb (Snow Leopard 10.6.8)
     Mac OS X (10.6.8),
     Couple of iPhones and an iPad

    "Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."  No, Seriously

  • ixtract.de Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Hi Ralph,

     

    as i noticed today, there are no buddies left in the Recent Items List after i started my Mac today. So it seems to keep only the ones in mind until the next day. Maybe here is the basis for the problem?

    How do i read a .plist file?

     

    imagent is running, but i do not have any playlist of it?

     

    Here is a screenshot of all my .plist i have regarding Messagess and imagent:

     

    Bildschirmfoto 2013-07-17 um 15.26.41.jpg

    Bildschirmfoto 2013-07-17 um 15.24.40.jpg

  • Ralph Johns (UK) Level 9 Level 9 (70,005 points)

    Hi,

     

    This is very odd.

     

    My window of the Preferences folder says the "Kind" for .plist is Property List and not Document.

     

    com.apple.ichat.AIM.plist  and the Jabber one and the Yahoo one hold info about the Logged in state of any Accounts of that particular type.

     

    com.apple.ichat.StatusMesage.plist holds all Saved Status Messages you have created.

    plist-2.png

     

     

     

    The com.apple.iChat.LSSharedFileList.plist is the Recent Lists.

    It is partly created by the System Preferences > General pane > Number of Service, Apps and Documents  (Saved iChats and iMessages are Documents of Messages)

     

    That leaves com.apple.ichat.plist itself.

    It holds everything else except account info that is in the Preferences and some Menu items

    So, Saved Chats setting in the Messages Pane, the Font, It's colour, the Balloon colour and any incoming overrides you set.

    Anything set in the General pane.

    The Mic and camera choices in the Video section if there are options.

    The Bandwidth Limit will return to the default "NONE"

    The Show Buddy Pics and Names option in the View Menu that effects some Buddy lists and some Chats (depending which Window is "Front") is also stored here as is the Style Choice and whether you display Smilies.

     

    Plists can be read in Quick Look as shown above.

    If you have Xcode installed that will open them  (there used to be a separate Property List Editor at one point)

    At a push you can use Open With and Text Edit  but this takes some effort to read in very large .plist files

     

    I am going to test removing the IMAgent .plist and not restarting the computer and seeing if the restart of Messages causes the writing of a new .plist

    I will follow that with deleting my com.apple.ichat.Subnet.plist that may not be used in the Messages version.

     

     

     

    3Sigcopy2.png
    9:03 PM      Wednesday; July 17, 2013

     

      iMac 2.5Ghz 5i 2011 (Mountain Lion 10.8.4)
     G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
     MacBookPro 2Gb (Snow Leopard 10.6.8)
     Mac OS X (10.6.8),
     Couple of iPhones and an iPad

    "Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."  No, Seriously

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