Q: Setting up roaming network going through Linksys RV082

To prove just how bad my skills are, do I do that in the express/extremes or do I do that on the linksys?  Lemme guess, probably both ;0)

Do it on either.. not both.. but it is probably easier to do it on the extreme/express.

My personal preference would be to do everything in the main router.. so it fully controls the network.. but I do think it is too hard unless you are really familar with doing this kind of setup.

If I walked out from the living room to the deck and had my iPhone running the home stereo I would often lose connectivity to Airtunes even though I had a good wifi signal from the Express upstairs.

I know zero about airtunes.. sorry.. absolutely nothing. I am a rather late comer to the Mac scene.. and I guess I am half deaf now anyway.

Is the Airport Extreme considered a NAT router?  The Expresses?  I sure wish I could find some sort of a port mapper that I understood how to use that could visualize my network for me!

They are all NAT routers if you set up with NAT.. but of course you are not using them as such.. in bridge you bypass the NAT side.

I don't know of a port mapper and I should not really have thought it important.

Although the airport utility is supposed to show what is happening it is a bit less than detailed. Are you running ipv6 local-link.. that is important.

I can move the Extreme downstairs no problem...I just need to come up with a small router/hub to connect the Mac Mini, TV, and Stereo in the living room to.  Would that be the best way to do this you think?

It is nice to have another router.. but you can use an Express with a switch.. although I think you can pickup extreme cheap enough now if you hunt second hand.

I'm still dropping my airtunes so I'm wondering if moving that Extreme downstairs and running the expresses off that isn't the way to go.  I ordered a gigabit switch to take place of the Extreme in the living room. 

 

You now reach the experimental stage.. welcome to the bleeding edge.

I am a great believer in experimental science.. take a run at it, have a go.. that is the best way to learn.

I have tried to do media stuff (not airtunes but similar).. and my experience was that wireless could not be trusted. It would stream a movie perfect for 1hr 25min.. then 10min before the end, it would start to glitch.. It was predictable in being at whatever moment the onscreen action would be most disrupted.. I then ran ethernet to everything.. no more glitches.. use wireless for data on laptops etc.. where timing is not critical. Use ethernet for everything else.

So will you fix it by redoing the setup and starting from scratch.. maybe.. for a day or a week.. thereafter voodoo that is inherent in wireless will get you. Break out the beads and rattles and start offering chicken livers to the gods of ether!!

Hi LaPastenague and AQ Bill,

I am very interested in this thread. But my issue is slightly different.  i want the Airport Extreme to sit behind the rv082. But I want to set up an OSX server connected to th Extreme. Should I set up the Extreme as a gateway or a router access point? Also if I take the ethernet from the RV082, do I connect it to the WAN on the extreme or do I connect it to one of the LAN ports?

Thanks.

What role do you want the Extreme to play.. if it is just Wireless Access Point.. WAP then you bridge the AE..

There is really no such thing as a Router Access Point.. that just would imply a wireless router.. and the very thing you want to avoid is two routers.

So RV082----ethernet--AE---Ethernet OSX server.

It makes no difference which port you use.. in bridge the AE is dumb AP and WAN port is joined to LAN.. so you effectively have 4 LAN ports.. but convention says use WAN port for link to the main router.

Thanks LaPastenague.

sorry about the confusion about router access point.  the distinction that i was making was the one in linksys/cisco routers where you could have it set as Gateway or Router. So for example right now I have a RV082 and a WRT54G and if I connect a port from the RV082 to the WAN on the WRT theni hae to set it up as a Gateway and DHCP is enabled....also RV082 is for example 192.168.1.1 amd WRT is 192.168.2.1 and everything under WRT are dynamically assigned by the WRT and has address 192.168.2.x; also 192.168.1.x machines don't see 192.168.2.x machines and vice versa. So its almost a separate VLAN.

if i connect a port from RV082 to a LAN port on the WRT then I have to set up in Router mode and not Gateway. Also DHCP for machines under WRT are assigned by RV082. Now all machines can see each other. I guess I can use the RV082 and create a new VLAN for the WRT address and make it static. That way there would be an additional firewall between the two.

I am setting up an OSX server and am having some trouble getting the right ports forwarded through the RV082. Also, I have set up an A name with my hosting service, but they do not allow me to set up a PTR. But I read somewhere that you can do this inside the server using the local DNS settings. Is that the case?

In any case, I was thinking of upgrading my wireless to the Airport extreme - also because it plays well with setting up the server. I need some users to log in remotely and need to set up a few services. I am not an IT / Networking person and am just stumbling through all this. If I set up the AEBS as Off Bridge behind the RV082, can I set up all the port forwarding through the AEBS.

Also, if my server can be given a static IP internally (which it can with AEBS), and it can be firewalled from other machines in the network (meaning if someone accesses server through VPN remotely - they should not see the rest of my network), then do I really need the RV082 and WRT anymore?

Apologies if this post meandered a bit - but just wanted to give some context of what I have and what I want to do.

jugalbandi wrote:

 

Thanks LaPastenague.

sorry about the confusion about router access point.  the distinction that i was making was the one in linksys/cisco routers where you could have it set as Gateway or Router. So for example right now I have a RV082 and a WRT54G and if I connect a port from the RV082 to the WAN on the WRT theni hae to set it up as a Gateway and DHCP is enabled....also RV082 is for example 192.168.1.1 amd WRT is 192.168.2.1 and everything under WRT are dynamically assigned by the WRT and has address 192.168.2.x; also 192.168.1.x machines don't see 192.168.2.x machines and vice versa. So its almost a separate VLAN.

 

That is characteristic double NAT.. don't do it. Unlike a vlan where you do have direct access to the NAT router in double NAT you have two routers and you will have connection issues.

if i connect a port from RV082 to a LAN port on the WRT then I have to set up in Router mode and not Gateway. Also DHCP for machines under WRT are assigned by RV082. Now all machines can see each other. I guess I can use the RV082 and create a new VLAN for the WRT address and make it static. That way there would be an additional firewall between the two.

 

Not sure what you want to achieve but dual firewalls is a recipe for trouble. VLAN is the right way to do things.

I am setting up an OSX server and am having some trouble getting the right ports forwarded through the RV082. Also, I have set up an A name with my hosting service, but they do not allow me to set up a PTR. But I read somewhere that you can do this inside the server using the local DNS settings. Is that the case?

 

 

Forwarding ports will be impossible through the double NAT. Again why you don't do it.

I have not used Reverse DNS lookup etc.. so not able to help you with that one.. but have a look at this youtube..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiZV4sA5-2c

Todd has a huge amount of very clear setup info for OSX server.. there are huge number of 8min or so videos that go through all the different aspects of setting up OSX server.. I am going to buy a copy .. and give it a go I think.. just for the interest.. I have done all this ages ago on windows server.. but now retired and really have no need but people always seem to ask these questions and it is a really cheap way to get server for your network.

In any case, I was thinking of upgrading my wireless to the Airport extreme - also because it plays well with setting up the server. I need some users to log in remotely and need to set up a few services. I am not an IT / Networking person and am just stumbling through all this. If I set up the AEBS as Off Bridge behind the RV082, can I set up all the port forwarding through the AEBS.

 

Also, if my server can be given a static IP internally (which it can with AEBS), and it can be firewalled from other machines in the network (meaning if someone accesses server through VPN remotely - they should not see the rest of my network), then do I really need the RV082 and WRT anymore?

 

Apologies if this post meandered a bit - but just wanted to give some context of what I have and what I want to do.

The AE can sit in the network just as a WAP.. I am not so sure it plays well with the server.. in fact it is almost irrelevant as all the action should be taking place on the RV082.. or on the OSX server.. you will get into a real mess running some services on each.

Anyhow there is no port forwarding in the AEBS that is bridged.. all forwarding is in the router which is the RV082.

The server can certainly be given a static IP.. indeed it should be.. either by static setting on the server or better, using dhcp reservation on the router.

The Router should be able to handle multiple vpn endpoints.. you can do this a number of ways if you want the rest of the network isolated.. but the easiest is to use vpn server on the server. And simply have vpn passthrough on the router.

Todd has some interesting videos on how to setup the OSX server and AEBS.. as well as things like VPN.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRAtWnNV71k

And although it not wholly about the AEBS.. it includes how to mix AEBS and the OSX server which has a problem with which box is going to handle dhcp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyU4vpMljEI

You might or might not follow that.. in bridge it would not be relevant..

Anyway.. I was very impressed with the clarity and easy to understand method Todd uses in the videos.. it is worth watching the whole lot.

Perfect. Thanks LaPastenague for your detailed reply.

I will get rid of the double NAT. Just as a piece of advice - would you recommend that I get rid of my RV082 and WRT54G combo and replace with Airport Extreme?

Thanks.

LaPastenague,

Removed Double NAT configuration. WRT54G is set up as access point from RV082 with a reserved IP assigned by RV082 - although it doesnt matter probably since DHCP is set up by RV082.

My machine with OSX server is assigned a reserved IP from the RV082 and is connected directly to the RV082.

My plan is to put the WRT54G in a separate VLAN so that is removed from the OSX server which is used for VPN connections by remote users.

Will update my success with the server setup.

Thanks for your help.

Yes, as long as all the users locally can connect to a different vlan then the OSX server will be isolated and you can access it remotely.

The RV082 is still a good solid SME type router.. it has loads more controls than the Apple routers.. so I would only get rid of it if you plan to moving all the network controls to the OSX server.. which you apparently are not interested in doing.

VPN through the Apple router can also be problematic. None of this is as easy with home type equipment.. which the apple router certainly is.

Keep us up to date with your setup.. as it is helpful.. even if just to a handful of people.