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Level 1

19 points

Fed Up with Aperture

This is my last shot at getting Aperture 3 to work for me.

Despite the good efforts and advice of folks here in the Community, and conversations with Apple, I can't get the **** thing to work correctly with Photoshop. Or, I am not using it correctly. Either way, this should not happen:

Doing everything by the book, using Photo> Edit in Photoshop CS4 >Save (in PS), this is what I get back in Aperture. The icons say it's been externally edited, but no editing appears. Sometimes the PS file comes back as an "Unsupported File Format," sometimes it comes back but without the editing as in this example.

Maybe if I shot only in JPEG and edited only inside Aperture, everything would work; but I will continue using Photoshop for layer blending and compositing RAW images, and Aperture obviously cannot deal with that process.

If anyone can intuit what's going wrong, or what I might be doing wrong, I welcome any suggestions before I junk the whole project and go back my old workflow. The only suggestion I get from Apple support is that I need to upgrade to CS6, but spending another $500 to use Aperture is out of the question.

Right now am fed up with spending time and effort editing only to see that work simply disappear into some digital black hole. Thanks for reading and any suggestions,

Brian

iPad 2, OS X Mountain Lion (10.8.2)

Posted on Aug 6, 2013 2:37 PM

31 replies

léonie

Level 10

195,013 points

Aug 7, 2013 5:28 AM in response to azartguy

Brian,

it is hard to trouble shoot this, since Adobe PhotoShop CS4 is an older version, my version is CS6 now.

But I remember, that CS4 used to work well with earlier Aperture 3 versions.

What are your settings in Photoshop#s preferences in the File handling section of the preferences? Perhaps you could post a screenshot.

And for a test - does Aperture recognize the file format, if you send a simple image back and forth to CS4 - a plain 8 bit tiff or PSD without any layers?

-- Léonie

P.S. You are seeing the edited files in the Finder. So your originals are referenced? Does Preview open the edited PSD and Tiff files?

azartguy Author

Level 1

19 points

Aug 7, 2013 1:20 PM in response to léonie

Leonie,

I'm not sure how to answer some of these questions. First, the screenshot:

does Aperture recognize the file format, if you send a simple image back and forth to CS4 ?

I suppopse so, if you mean can I open it in Photoshop and "save" without layering. But I have to do something to the file (edit) or I can't use "save." And it goes back to Aperture in the same format as went out to CS4.

You are seeing the edited files in the Finder. Yes, if I save them to the desktop.

So your originals are referenced? I don't know what this means.

Does Preview open the edited PSD and Tiff files? I don't know what this means. All I know about "Preview" is opening the Preferences, clicking on the "Preview" button and this is what I get. I have no idea what it does, or if/when to change from this setting:

Aug 7, 2013 1:33 PM in response to azartguy

Jumping in briefly -- as long as you are trouble-shooting this, I suggest taking "color space" out of the equation. I think this can be done by setting "Aperture➞Preferences➞Export➞External Editor Color Space" to "No Profile Selected". Iirc, this lets the external editor set the color space.

And just to give Leonie a hand she doesn't need -- here, Bruce, she is referring to the OS X built-in image-viewing program "Preview", which is different from the Aperture entity Previews.

léonie

Level 10

195,013 points

Aug 7, 2013 2:28 PM in response to azartguy

Your file handling settings are similar to mine, only I have disabled the thumbnails, but I doubt that would make a difference.

I suppopse so, if you mean can I open it in Photoshop and "save" without layering. But I have to do something to the file (edit) or I can't use "save." And it goes back to Aperture in the same format as went out to CS4.

O.K. - I meant something different. I wanted to know, if there is any kind of file at all, that can be edited successfully in PSCS4, if you are using it as external editor. Are there edits in PSCS4, that will not give the "unrecognized format"? If you do not return layers? Or are editing a jpeg instead of your raws?

So your originals are referenced? I don't know what this means.

I was wondering, how you could see the files in the Finder, that Photoshop returned.

"Referenced" and "Managed" refers to to the way, how Aperture is storing its original image files.

Managed: Aperture stores the files inside the Aperture library package, so you cannot see them in the Finder, unless you open the Aperture library package.
Referenced: Aperture stores the files in a folder outside the library in a separate folder, and you can browse the originals. By default your Aperture library will use the managed scheme.

Preview: Thank you, Kirby, for coming back to this thread 🙂 I am the intruder here!

Brian, you are seeing your edited files in the Finder, and I wanted to be sure, that other MacOS X programs are able to recognize the format. That is why I suggested the test to open the edited files in the standard viewer "Preview". If that should also have trouble to open the file, then we would know, that something outside Aperture is problematic.

azartguy Author

Level 1

19 points

Aug 7, 2013 3:46 PM in response to léonie

Leonie,

You wrote: I wanted to know, if there is any kind of file at all, that can be edited successfully in PSCS4, if you are using it as external editor. Are there edits in PSCS4, that will not give the "unrecognized format"?

So far, both TIFF and PSD files are buggy. I haven't tried a JPEG, but I assume the same problem would crop up there.

I don't have any "native" JPEGs (from the camera), just JPEGs that have been converted from RAW, so if the problem lies in the Camera (RAW) > Aperture > Edit in CS4 based on the RAW Master it will be in all formats converted from RAW.

Now that I think about it, CS4 does not support Olympus ORF/RAW; Aperture does. Perhaps there's a bug in the Aperture conversion (to PSD, TIFF or JPEG) sent to the external editor. If so, Apple can't fix it, and Adobe won't fix it.

Since I want to continue shooting in RAW, I see only 4 solutions at this point:

Stop using Aperture
Only use Aperture for editing and give up the Photoshop features
Use Aperture but spend $500 for CS6 which supports ORF/RAW (not a good solution)
Keep using Aperture and CS4, but change the workflow to use the camera-bundled Olympus Viewer software to convert all ORF files, save them as TIFF/PSD to a desktop folder, then import that folder with both the RAW/ORF and converted files into Aperture, and do all external editing on the converted TIFF Masters and just keep the RAW files in "storage"

Thanks to you and Kirby for working on this with me; unless you have any additional options, I won't waste any more of your time on what looks like an unsolvable problem,

Brian

Aug 7, 2013 5:40 PM in response to azartguy

I'm not an adobe user so I can;t test this but there seem to be some net rumblings about saving 16 bit tiffs from PS. As an experiment I would try setting the export value to 8 bit Tiffs.

regards

azartguy Author

Level 1

19 points

Aug 7, 2013 8:14 PM in response to Frank Caggiano

Frank, 8-bit is the same as 16-bit in this case, if it converts and saves, it's good; sometimes it doesn't, so it isn't a bit issue,

Brian

azartguy Author

Level 1

19 points

Aug 9, 2013 4:58 PM in response to azartguy

UPDATE:

I thought I had a solution: by using Olympus Viewer to convert the RAW/ORF files import that folder directly into Aperture. It worked twice, then I got this the third time I tried it...again.

I've replaced software over the years when improved versions come out, but this will be the first time I've junked the newest version of software going all the way back to CP/M days.

Aug 9, 2013 5:51 PM in response to azartguy

Hmmm. Once upon a time, there was a problem with Aperture reading the file names of Adobe TIFF files. If memory services, Photoshop would export with a file suffix of .TIFF and Aperture would only read .TIF. (Or something like that.)

I just tested:

** Aperture preference to 16 bit PSD

** Edit in Photoshop Elements 11

** When finished, close window in Elements. This provokes a prompt to save, accept as is.

** Edits appear in Aperture. The file can be reopened in Elements with the layers intact.

When I do the same with a TIFF file, the edits do not appear and when reopened in Elements it has been flattened.

I am running Aperture 3.4.5 and it looks like a bug to me. That said, .PSD is fine for what I need to do.

Hope this helps.

azartguy Author

Level 1

19 points

Aug 10, 2013 1:55 PM in response to DiploStrat

DiploStrat, et al ... thanks one and all, again, for the input.

Since there is a bug in the Aperture 3 / CS4 workflow that can't be fixed, I think I've got a work around that defeats the Aperture conversion process (where it seems the bug lives) and gives me a backup for when, frequently, Aperture or CS4 screws the pooch:

Camera > Olympus Viewer > import ORF/RAW file folder

Viewer ORF/RAW > converted to TIFF 16-bit and saved back to Viewer folder

Aperture > Import > Viewer > Folder

Aperture > TIFF version > Edit with PS > PS Save back to Aperture Project

PS > Save As > edited file.tif > Pictures > APERTURE BUGS folder as backup

It's an extra step, but leaving PS open and using Save As for a backup saves the frustration of doing the editing only to see it dispear when Aperture version shows"File Format Not Supported."

Brian

Sep 23, 2013 12:31 PM in response to azartguy

Hi Guys:

I have the latest version of Aperture and PS CS6. I am shooting Nikon RAW (NEF) and I have my preferences set to export to CS6 as .psd. I find that the first time I work on a file in CS6 and hit save, the altered file goes back to my Aperture project with the changes saved. If I open that same psd file again to make more changes in CS6, when I save the second time the file "disappears".

It doesn't really disappear though. After having a couple of shots "vanish" I tried "Save As" in CS6. When the dialog opened it showed the file path. The original psd showed up in the aperture library as a picture in the project file. All subsequent attempts to save it were in a subfile within the project file and somehow rendered invisible from within the Aperture project itself.

My work around if I work on a psd a second time is to "Save As" and send the file to the Desktop. From there I can import it into the Aperture project and it shows up. Kinda painful. Wish there was a fix.

azartguy Author

Level 1

19 points

Sep 23, 2013 1:02 PM in response to VancrMarko

Yeah, that works. But then the Library treats it differently. According to the Manual, a version edited with an external editor is "...represented by the original created when the file was exported to the external editor."

But the drag n'drop version doesn't carry the external editor Badge, so I'm guessing that it isn't recognized as having been edited and now you have the original, a version and an unbadged edited version, so who knows what happens when you try to move those around, re-edit or whatever.

By the way, here's the latest "solution" from one of the Aperture support folks:

Finder>Go+Option>Library (the hidden one)>com.apple.Aperture.plist > Trash and then rebuild Preferences. It works, for a while, then it starts happening again and you have to repeat the process. Over, and over and over again.

Brian

e2photo

Level 2

176 points

Sep 23, 2013 3:03 PM in response to azartguy

A couple of thoughts

1. Have you verified that your hard drive is ok using the Disk Utility program?

2. When I export to Photoshop, I just click the close button and it asks if I want to save the changes. I would be worried if in Photoshop you use the Save or Save As menu items as I am not quite sure where the saved file will go and how Aperture would track it.

3. What is the integrity of the saved Photoshop file and where do you save it. Can you open it in PS and is it ok with the edits. Same questions with Saved As use.

Sep 26, 2013 6:44 PM in response to azartguy

Kinda depressing. I have been an Aperture guy since it was first introduced. I've always felt like Photoshop was stitched to gether like Frankenstein's monster because, although it is incredibly powerful, it is so counter-intuitive and just seems to be one tool piled on another without any thought for continuity or clarity. Having said that, I need it and Aperture is making me struggle to use it.

Sometimes I feel like all Apple cares about now is phones and tablets. Maybe it's time to switch, but I hope not.

e2photo

Level 2

176 points

Sep 26, 2013 7:57 PM in response to VancrMarko

I have use Aperture and CS 4-6 over the years processing thousands of pictures and still do. Occasionally, there have been problems, but overall, the combination has been an enormously powerful tool. I don't know if Aperture 4.0 will ever arrive (not sure there are new tools that need to be in Aperture), but if it does, it will mostly likely be more than than in incremental improvement.

Fed Up with Aperture