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  • TJBUSMC1973 Level 5 Level 5 (7,310 points)

    So use your cellular data instead.  Wi-Fi is not the primary function of an iPhone. 

  • Prokhozhy Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    TJBUSMC1973 wrote:

     

    So use your cellular data instead.  Wi-Fi is not the primary function of an iPhone.

     

    Really? How insensitive! Well, allow me to retort! What makes an iPhone different from a "granny phone" and really SPECIAL is all the bells and whistles that come with it - the APPS. Some of them are quite expensive. For example, I have purchase a navigation app called "iGO". During the factory reset which I performed hoping to regain my wifi function (Apple's recommendation, btw), all my in-app purchases were erased, and now when I try to restore those purchases and re-download them to my iBrick, I cannot do that. The app just says: the download is too big for cellular, please use wifi. So I've lost all POI data, voice guidance, 3D packages, elevation packages - the works! And the only way to get them back is to revive wifi. And that's just ONE example...

    Even if I could use cellular for such downloads, you are basically telling me I should throw away tons of cash to pay massive 3G costs. Well, I would like to stay in charge of my personal finances for now, thank you very much. Really, TJBUSMC1973, with such unsolicited advice you are getting out of line.

    Incidentally, would you care to share your wisdom - what IS the primary function of an iPhone in YOUR book?

    You also have chosen to completely ignore the salient points in my posts. Does that mean you have nothing to say on the REAL issue at hand?

  • LouLou71 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Impossible for some, the other issue my phone had and again I am not the only one as there are other threads on is too,  is that it started to try and run its own software updates every few nights and ate into 1gb data I. 9 days. No I'm not making it up or imagining  it, O2 (uk network) told me this was the case.

     

    It's a work a work around some May find acceptable, not all and not a solution to the underlying issues

  • TJBUSMC1973 Level 5 Level 5 (7,310 points)

    Prokhozhy wrote:

     

    TJBUSMC1973 wrote:

     

    So use your cellular data instead.  Wi-Fi is not the primary function of an iPhone.

     

    Really? How insensitive! Well, allow me to retort! What makes an iPhone different from a "granny phone" and really SPECIAL is all the bells and whistles that come with it - the APPS. Some of them are quite expensive. For example, I have purchase a navigation app called "iGO". During the factory reset which I performed hoping to regain my wifi function (Apple's recommendation, btw), all my in-app purchases were erased, and now when I try to restore those purchases and re-download them to my iBrick, I cannot do that. The app just says: the download is too big for cellular, please use wifi. So I've lost all POI data, voice guidance, 3D packages, elevation packages - the works! And the only way to get them back is to revive wifi. And that's just ONE example...

    Even if I could use cellular for such downloads, you are basically telling me I should throw away tons of cash to pay massive 3G costs. Well, I would like to stay in charge of my personal finances for now, thank you very much. Really, TJBUSMC1973, with such unsolicited advice you are getting out of line.

    Incidentally, would you care to share your wisdom - what IS the primary function of an iPhone in YOUR book?

     

     

    The primary function of an iPhone is to make phone calls.

    Everything else is a secondary function. 

    By definition, there can be only ONE primary function.

    If you did not need to make phone calls with an iPhone, then you should have purchased an iPod Touch.

     

    You don't use Wi-Fi with navigation, since no Wi-Fi network is going to have more than a few hundred feet (with some exceptions I've heard of of up to about a mile).

     

    You can get your Apps back on your device by using iTunes on your computer.  You don't need either wi-fi or cellular to download an app.  In fact, since there is no guarantee that a particular app will stay in the App Store permanently, you should be backing up your device to iTunes just in case.

     

    Now, to the cost of your cellular data.  Sounds like that's an issue with your wireless carrier.  If you're upset about the cost of your internet access on your cellular phone, because your 'FREE' access is now gone, take it up with your provider.  Cellular data is a HUGE income generator for cellular companies.  Have you expressed your concern about the internet access costs to your internet access provider?

  • TJBUSMC1973 Level 5 Level 5 (7,310 points)

    Prokhozhy wrote:

     

     

    You also have chosen to completely ignore the salient points in my posts. Does that mean you have nothing to say on the REAL issue at hand?

     

    I've said plenty on the real issue.

     

    Facts:

    Hardware warranty was for one year, as mutually agreed upon by manufacturer, reseller, and customer at time of purchase.

     

    Option to increase hardware coverage by an additional year was available to the customer up until the very last day of the original warranty.

     

    Apple is offering replacements at approximately a 65% discount to customers that are outside of warranty.

     

    Apple is not required (at least in the U.S.) to provide srvice free of charge to any device outside of warranty, and is actually doing more than the law requires by offering discounted replacements.

     

    (Let me know if you want to dispute any of the above facts, please)

     

    My Opinions:

    Apple should offer some form of compensation to affected users, if those users can prove that their devices is malfunctioning due to a defect, and not due to abnormal wear & tear or damage.

     

    Customer should accept personal responsibility for choosing not to extend their coverage, and act in a polite and courteous manner when requesting that the manufacturer offer some form of compensation.

  • LouLou71 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    So if they aren't responsible, why in some cases are they replacing phones that are out of warranty? If it's a gesture of goodwill, surely there should be some consistency?

  • Prokhozhy Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    The primary function of an iPhone is to make phone calls.


    Now, how can I argue with that. But let's imagine you have a car. The primary function of a car is to drive. But would you be happy with a car with a broken stereo system, or broken climate control, or broken electric window lift? Wifi is an essential function, and its absence materially diminishes the usefulness of the iPhone. Do you agree with that?

    You don't use Wi-Fi with navigation...

    You have been inattentive. I know all that, and I have successfully restored the app - the BASIC version of the app. What I said is that IN-APP PURCHASES (the extras) can ONLY be restored from the iPhone, and ONLY using wifi. The lack of the extras materially diminishes the usefulness of the app.

    Now, to the cost of your cellular data...

    Are you missing the point ON PURPOSE? The cost of my cellular data would be not important if I hadn't lost the use of my wifi. It's like if my car has lost climate control, and your advice is that I should use a battery-operated fan to cool myself while I am driving.

    Basically you are saying I (and others like me) should pay up or shut up and learn to live without wifi. Now, how would you perceive such attitude if you were on the receiving end?

  • Prokhozhy Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    I've said plenty on the real issue.

     

    With all due respect, I beg to differ. I believe the real issue is this: Apple has been telling unhappy customers all over the world that the heat generated by the update pushed the originally substandard chip over the edge. Do you agree with that? If that is the case, and iPhone 4S did come with a substandard wifi chip, that means I have been sold a substandard product. Do you agree with that? If that is the case, it constitutes an event of default under the sale contract. Do you agree with that? If that is the case, then what warranty are you talking about? The warranty issue is irrelevant. [A girl comes home and tells her father: "Daddy, I've been hit by a car!" He goes: "Was it a Chrysler?" Curtains...]

    Does installing an update recommended by the manufacturer amount to "abnormal wear & tear or damage"? If not, then my device is "malfunctioning due to a defect". A defect that was there from Day 1. Do you agree? I believe that the manufacturer is liable for that defect and, therefore, I should not be paying anything to the manufacturer. Instead, I am, indeed, entitled to "some form of compensation" - a free replacement of the defective product. Do you agree with that?

    Please be advised I will be away for the weekend, so if you choose to answer these questions (which you are not obliged to do, of course), I won't be able to reply until Monday. With that, allow me to sincerely wish you a very good day...

  • TJBUSMC1973 Level 5 Level 5 (7,310 points)

    LouLou71 wrote:

     

    So if they aren't responsible, why in some cases are they replacing phones that are out of warranty? If it's a gesture of goodwill, surely there should be some consistency?

    I'm sure there is some consistency.  Possible factors could be how long outside of warranty the device is (one day outside of warranty would be viewed differently than six months outside of warranty, for example), how long the customer has been an Apple customer, and how the customer presents themselves to the person that makes the decision about out-of-warranty replacement.

     

    An Apple customer for five years, with a device that is 15 days outside of warranty, who calmly and politely presents their case and makes a polite and tactful request is likely to get a replacement.

     

    A customer that has only been an Apple customer since buying their iPhone, the device is six months outside of warranty, and stomps into the local store and demands a replacement, or else, is probably NOT going to get a repalcement.

  • TJBUSMC1973 Level 5 Level 5 (7,310 points)

    Prokhozhy wrote:

     

    The primary function of an iPhone is to make phone calls.


    Now, how can I argue with that. But let's imagine you have a car. The primary function of a car is to drive. But would you be happy with a car with a broken stereo system, or broken climate control, or broken electric window lift? Wifi is an essential function, and its absence materially diminishes the usefulness of the iPhone. Do you agree with that?

     

    You don't use Wi-Fi with navigation...

     

    You have been inattentive. I know all that, and I have successfully restored the app - the BASIC version of the app. What I said is that IN-APP PURCHASES (the extras) can ONLY be restored from the iPhone, and ONLY using wifi. The lack of the extras materially diminishes the usefulness of the app.

    Now, to the cost of your cellular data...

    Are you missing the point ON PURPOSE? The cost of my cellular data would be not important if I hadn't lost the use of my wifi. It's like if my car has lost climate control, and your advice is that I should use a battery-operated fan to cool myself while I am driving.

    Basically you are saying I (and others like me) should pay up or shut up and learn to live without wifi. Now, how would you perceive such attitude if you were on the receiving end?

    No, I don't agree with the statement that Wi-FI is an 'essential' function.  It's a secondary function of the iPhone.  It is a fact that most (if not all) wireless carriers require you to have a cellular data plan to use an iPhone on their network.  There is no requirement to have a wi-fi network.  Therefore, it is clear that Wi-Fi is a secondary function, not a primary function.

     

    Can you still get online?  Then the device does not have a critical failure.  The issue is the COST associated with your internet service.  I remember when there was an hourly cost for internet access.

     

    As far as in-App purchases, I believe you are mistaken.  Have you even attempted to download the App via iTunes?  Have you contacted the App developer?

     

    What I'm saying is that you should accept that you made a choice to live within the constraints of the warranty.  You're free to ASK Apple to go above and beyond their requirements, but you have no right to DEMAND that.

     

     

    To respond to your second post, the bare facts are that if the device has a defect, it is the consumer's responsibility to report the defect within the time limit of the warranty.  Tell me, how long after the warranty expires is a fair amount of time to report a defect?  10 days?  One year?  A decade?  Pick a time frame.

  • LouLou71 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Length of relationship should be irrelevant and wouldn't be treating a customer fairly IMO.

     

    For example, say I was only 18 at the time of purchase and this was my first iPhone (in the UK you have to be 18 to have a phone contract) and it went wrong outside of the 12 month warranty lets say by 70 days as (when symptoms first starts) in my case and I went in nice as pie and pointed out that others were having the same issue with their 4s,  then why wasn't my phone replaced by apple?

     

    Are you also saying apple should replace someone's phone  who had a relationship with them as in your example for 5years and whose phone was the same number of days out of warranty as in my case, but not mine because I had only my iPhone for 1 year plus 70 days?

     

     

    What makes you sure there is some consistency in how they are handling the wifi issue? I don't have any hard facts as unfortunately those that have had their phones replaced OOW haven't indicated how far outside they were, so we are both none the wiser about their individual circumstances, or do you have some hard stats? No disrespect, but you being 'sure' doesn't do it for me, unless of course you have some insider info on what apples policy is.

     

    In addition to length of relationship, number of apple products IMO should also be irrelevant, although FYI we have 2 iPads and 3 iPhones in our household and for the record my daughter has had to have 3 previous iPhones replaced due to various faults and all within warranty as had my brother who was also an apple advocate.

  • LouLou71 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I would have to disagree with you that the wifi function is not essential. To me it was, given that neither I or my network provider had any control over my phone when it started to run random software updates every few nights and ate all of my data allowance in 9 days.

     

    My network provider only allows 1 extra top up of data on my plan, so you see when all of my data was gone, wifi was the only way I would have been able to connect to the internet, this was essential.

  • LouLou71 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    2nd post down doesn't bode well, so even brand new phones are failing

     

    https://discussions.apple.com/message/23626832?ac_cid=tw123456#23626832

  • TJBUSMC1973 Level 5 Level 5 (7,310 points)

    LouLou71 wrote:

     

    Length of relationship should be irrelevant and wouldn't be treating a customer fairly IMO.

     

    For example, say I was only 18 at the time of purchase and this was my first iPhone (in the UK you have to be 18 to have a phone contract) and it went wrong outside of the 12 month warranty lets say by 70 days as (when symptoms first starts) in my case and I went in nice as pie and pointed out that others were having the same issue with their 4s,  then why wasn't my phone replaced by apple?

     

    Are you also saying apple should replace someone's phone  who had a relationship with them as in your example for 5years and whose phone was the same number of days out of warranty as in my case, but not mine because I had only my iPhone for 1 year plus 70 days?

     

     

    What makes you sure there is some consistency in how they are handling the wifi issue? I don't have any hard facts as unfortunately those that have had their phones replaced OOW haven't indicated how far outside they were, so we are both none the wiser about their individual circumstances, or do you have some hard stats? No disrespect, but you being 'sure' doesn't do it for me, unless of course you have some insider info on what apples policy is.

     

    In addition to length of relationship, number of apple products IMO should also be irrelevant, although FYI we have 2 iPads and 3 iPhones in our household and for the record my daughter has had to have 3 previous iPhones replaced due to various faults and all within warranty as had my brother who was also an apple advocate.

     

    Your network provider does have control over that; they just choose not to take the required extra steps to exert that control.

     

    As far as why I believe there's consistency, it's because Apple has policies and procedures that govern situations like that.

     

    And as far as length of relationship, of course that has an impact.  If someone's been an Apple customer for years, never asked for any special consideration, then that's going to be viewed differently than someone that just bought an iPhone, broke it by dropping it two days later, and then wants compensation.

     

    When it comes down to someone making a judgement call, then length of relationship has a factor.  Whether you like it or not, that's the reality.

  • LouLou71 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Length of relationship is not a reality in all industries. The sector I work in is not allowed discriminate against a persons  age (amongst many other things), as I said example of the 18 year old is it their fault they are only 18 and were not allowed to have a mobile contract any sooner, thus their relationship is far shorter than a 30 year old who had the opportunity to purchase an iPhone many years earlier Than the 18 year old. If we sided with the customer with the longer  length  of service (remember same scenario 70 days OOW, polite, not demanding, ever so grateful),  that would surely constitute some kind of bias or discrimination and I don't think even apple would be exempt from that kind of discrimination?

     

    Did the apple genius ask me how long ago I had bought my first iPhone? No they didn't, so length of relationship was irrelevant in my case, could she see from my iPhone how many products I had and for how long?

     

    Perhaps you have a smart answer for that too and my previous post where an apple customer was about to get their 2nd brand new replacement  phone (assume still in warranty) is this also a coincidence  they have had 2 handsets that developed the same fault upon downloading ios7.03?

     

    So how do you know apple has policies and procedures they govern customers are treated fairly?

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