Touch ID being Erratic

i2 wrote:

Frankswan wrote:

Before I go ripping it off, I wonder what percentage of reported TID problems are from phones with film. I believe a few people have said it makes no difference but a larger sample would help.

Are you guys talking about the protective covering that our phones have on both sides when we get them from Apple? Are you saying that we can remove it but leave behind some film on the touch ID? More details please.

No, they mean a third-party "screen protector," such as a Zagg Invisible Shield. I suspect that if the screen protector were the culprit, then you would not get a gradual degradation of Touch ID. It would be erratic from the start. I do have one on my phone, yet newly-registered prints work perfectly every time for about an hour. Then they suddenly cease to work. A screen protector problem would not follow that pattern every single time.

Perhaps but if the screen protector causes abnormal operation such as changing the conductivity or not providing intended full finger contact with the ring then it could be a contributing factor in some cases. That's why I would like to know if there is any correlation between screen protectors and reported TID issues.

For now I'm giving up. I cannot get TID to work consistently. turned it off out of frustration.

I'll take to Apple store next time I'm planning on going down to Albuqueruqe.

Very disappointing.

Steve

Sure, but a screen protector problem would explain at most only a subset of the issues being reported. Anyone who just can't get it to work at all might try removing their screen protector. Or anyone who is having consistently erratic scans right from the start. But a screen protector cannot be the culprit for those of us with a steady pattern of short-term 100% success followed by a steep degradation and ultimate total failure.

This is true. That's why I said in some cases. Have you removed your screen protector to see if there is any difference? This would be interesting since you seem to be experiencing severe and rapid degradation after print registration that reoccurs. If every poster would say "with" or "without" screen protector, we could get a better idea of possible correlation.

i2 wrote:

This is true. That's why I said in some cases. Have you removed your screen protector to see if there is any difference? This would be interesting since you seem to be experiencing severe and rapid degradation after print registration that reoccurs. If every poster would say "with" or "without" screen protector, we could get a better idea of possible correlation.

My situation is the one that is least likely to be a screen protector problem. A newly registered print always works perfectly for about an hour. I can do it as much as I want in that first hour, and it will work perfectly every time. Then after maybe 75-90 minutes, it will degrade to working after the third attempt or so. Then after about two hours, it won't work at all. Same pattern every time, with any finger. I worked very hard at getting my screen protector on perfectly and without dust or bubbles trapped under it, so I am not at all inclined to peel it off, especially when it is so very unlikely to be the culprit for my particular pattern of Touch ID problems.

A screen protector is not a problem and will not cause TID to fail. TID works through a plastic bag; It will work with a screen protector. Long time viewers of this thread know this 😉

If you have not been following this thread and are still having TID problems (last few post above, anyhow) see my post earlier today at the top of this page, read the first entry, scroll down to the Dec 1 post and follow the YouTube link.

One last thought: As mentioned earlier today, delete all fingerprints and just register one per the video. Run with that and see if it gets you further that what you are experiencing now.

Interesting to see the additions to the touch id page 12/5 http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5883?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US .. that tells us that they realize it's not just a small number of us. Good to know, maybe they'll eventually figure out why the prints seem to degrade for some of us.

My touch ID reads my prints fine when it works. The touch ID working is just inconsistent for me. I do not mean that it doesn't recognize my fingerprint and asks me to try again. When it isn't working it functions just like my iPhone 4S did. There is no response when my finger is on the touch ID and I am forced to input my PW. I have two fingerprints in my touch ID, but when the touch ID isn't responding the two prints do not even show up under my settings and the add fingerprint is gray and not functional. I have reset my phone and closed all apps, but it doesn't seem to work. The only way I have been able to get the touch ID to begin working again is to allow my battery to run completely out to the point my phone shuts down. When the phone is plugged in and comes back on the touch id works fine for several hours, both of my prints appear back under my touch ID and the add fingerprint link is functioning fine in my settings option. After a few hours the process starts over.

Adambellpt wrote:

When the phone is plugged in and comes back on the touch id works fine for several hours, both of my prints appear back under my touch ID and the add fingerprint link is functioning fine in my settings option. After a few hours the process starts over.

How many times have you seen this effect? A lot of us see prints work for hours or days after deleting and recreating. Do you also happen to be recreating yours a lot. If so, it may just be a coincidence.

Interesting that Apple added this to the KB article: "With each additional finger that you enroll, it may take slightly longer for Touch ID to recognize your finger when you use it." This comports with what Joe discovered. I believe it also causes corruption, as Joe, smilleresq and others noted. I deleted all my other prints and now only have my right thumb enrolled twice and TID works almost instantly and flawlessly. Not sure if enrolling the thumb twice is beneficial or detrimental, but at this point it's working so well I don't want to mess with it. The take-away, I think, is to only enroll one print for maximum efficiency and accuracy.

Disappointingly, I'm still getting the total failure situations where it will fail 5 times, causing me to enter the pass code, then it starts working again perfectly. Nothing to do with degradation of the print. There is a documented conflict with Twitter, but I don't even have a Twitter installed so clearly some other app or process is causing a problem. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that iOS 7.1 will fix this.

Further to Joe suggesting that the screen protector doesn't affect the performance of the touch id I can only add my own experience.

I enrolled my thumb twice as per Joes video with screen protector on. The id worked erratically & sometimes not at all.

I was fiddling around with the phone & decided to just pull up the bottom of the protector away from the home button. The touch system worked straight away. I switched off completely & re started & tried again after initially entering PW after start up, worked time & again.

I took off that protector & cut another one short so not to encroach on the home button. Works very well & I'm pleased.

It's nearly 4 days since doing this & it's worked every time but sometimes outside it needs to be touched 2 or 3 times.

Now I know Joe used a plastic bag over his finger & it worked but is there any difference in the plastic of the bag & perhaps acetate in the protector? I don't know I'm not a materials engineer.

So all I can say, without the protector my phone works more or less as it should.

The plastic sandwich bag does have a different composition and thickness than a screen protector but more importantly it also cover's the entire screen and extends closely around the TID button. So there would be major differences unless you want to ignore the detail. Joe_Fo's purpose for using the sandwich bag in his video is to demonstrate that dry fingers shouldn't be a problem and it does that. Extending that to say screen protectors aren't a problem and will not cause TID to fail is perhaps a reasonable but not proven assumption. It may just be my engineering background but I like to see controlled experiments. I can understand the reluctance to remove the screen protector to see if it improves reliability for those with the less severe TID problems. So I haven't seen enough data to judge screen prtoectors as a cause for users experiencing the similar less severe errratic problems. My TID is working reasonably well with the screen protector and I am satisfied. The technique Joe_Fo developed for registering a print is great because it adds order to the procedure that is lacking in Apple's KB article HT5883. From my experience more complete contact with the ring provides better reliabiliy.