Q: Touch ID being Erratic

bobcrossley wrote:

 

Cleaning the finger scanner seems to be the thing that works best for me so I suppose I should get a wallet type case.

Cleaning the scanner makes no difference for me. Once failure starts, I have never been able to resurrect it to be usable.

I rescanned a print yesterday, and I don't use my phone very much so it was maybe opened 4-6 times throughout the day and not at all after 4 pm yesterday. The area of recognition this morning is so small and while I was able to retrain it  somewhat to recognize more of my print (which with my experience will not last), this is ridiculously time consuming such that at this juncture TID is not worth it. I may go back to the apple store and have my phone exchanged out just to see what happens.

yeah, same here, cleaning the button/scanner makes no difference.

I'll update tomorrow once I've been to the Apple Store....

smilleresq wrote:

 

Cleaning the scanner makes no difference for me. Once failure starts, I have never been able to resurrect it to be usable.

 

 

I honestly only have major issues if I add a second finger, but recently testing has had me redoing my 12/1/13 print on 1/1/14.

I also read the Apple web page on the 5S design. Conflicting info RE TID is troubling. While the docs state the importance of keeping everything clean and dry, the design page states:

" Made from laser-cut sapphire crystal, the surface of the button directs the image of your finger to a capacitive touch sensor, which reads beneath the outer layers of your skin to get a detailed print."

Okay, if it's reading subcutaneous, why should we have to worry about surface cleanliness, unless it blocks the sensor from reading "beneath" the skin.  Just struck me as odd...

That, and I don't know any gathered here would agree with this jewel, and I don't mean the sapphire crystal:

"It’s all highly advanced technology that simply disappears as you use it. So you don’t notice anything. Except how unlocking your iPhone is suddenly so effortless."

Maybe some day, but we're not there yet.

Some day I really would like to use more than one finger. Oh, and seeing this thread fade into memory would be nice, too.

RE retraining: I thought this in the early days but it's worth mentioning again. The updating TID does still feels like a "use it or lose it" algorithm, which might be why we see the recognized area shrink over time.  I try to vary what area I use to unlock, but don't always remember, and tend to favor center and one side vs the other. The side I don't use as much, over time, doesn't work as well or not at all, and a quick retrain brings it back.  I agree this is too much time spent for something that's touted as being "effortless".

Done that. Got a new phone...same issue. Wiped my old one clean and restored, t...same issue. Now they are suggesting I reinstall just bare bones and add one app at a time till we find what's causing the conflict. Might try that.

This *****. But my girlfriend's phone works 100% of the time after reinstalling the OS. Mine doesn't.

Hope they're listening and working on this. The rest of the phone is absolutely amazing, and NOTHING is yet running in 64 bit mode...when thy bring out some apps for that, it is TRULY going to be astonishing.

Cheers,

Cameron

"updating TID does still feels like a "use it or lose it" algorithm, which might be why we see the recognized area shrink over time. "

Joe, I'm not so sure, and think you would agree that this is counter to the previous assumption that the learning feature was making TID worse with use because the additional data was  somehow corrupting the original, pristine scan. Although I do not use the phone that much,  to open the phone I more often then not use home button. Whether or not I enter my code or attempt to use TID, I would presume  it is still scanning  when pressed and if so it would be adding data possibly causing corruption.

I may do a rescan and only use the sleep/wake button to open the phone for a day just to see what happens.

smilleresq wrote:

 

[snip]

I would presume  it is still scanning  when pressed and if so it would be adding data possibly causing corruption.

 

I may do a rescan and only use the sleep/wake button to open the phone for a day just to see what happens.

You have to keep in mind it's a learning process.  Learning needs to be both additive when new features are found, and subtractive when features change and are no longer seen.  At least that's how it should work from a logical viewpoint, IMHO.  With a finite amount of memory, it can't add new data forever

Cambo III, I'm on my THIRD phone and second complete reinstall, and still can't get TID to work for longer than a day. I have to laugh at their suggestion that you just add one app at a time. If I added back one app a day, it would take me ALL YEAR to install my system! :

The only thing in this thread that I've found helpful is Jo Fo's suggestion to register opposing fingers on the same place. That has allowed my TID settings to survive for as long as 24 hours, but no longer.

I believe it must be a "suicide bug" in the code, which wipes out the information stored in the CPU.

Just out of curiosity, if you don't mind discussing it, how many apps have you installed on your phone? I had almost exactly 365, but pared off nearly a hundred when I reinstalled from scratch. Didn't help. :-(

I also love the phone, but TID was a major reason for me upgrading from my 5.

Message was edited by: Arthur_P_Johnson

Hmm, that's weird. I haven't had any problems with Touch ID. Yet, I mean it occasionally tells me to try again. But I was mainly just playing around with it. Have you made sure your finger you are using to scan it with is clean? I'm guessing it obviously is. But sometimes it might have that one thing that causes it not to scan it right! Or maybe try cleaning the TID with one of those micro fiber cloths. That MIGHT help. But I hope you figure out your problem!

Arthur_P_Johnson wrote:

 

[snip]

The only thing in this thread that I've found helpful is Jo Fo's suggestion to register opposing fingers on the same place. That has allowed my TID settings to survive for as long as 24 hours, but no longer.

 

[snip]

Arthur: Not sure what you mean, but I think you mean where both left and right thumbs are used as if it were one finger. If so, note that that was someone else who suggested it not long ago here. I tried it but found it too failed (for me) fairly quickly.

The only thing that works for me is only enrolling one thumb, and only when following the method I outlined in this thread and in the YouTube video, a link for which is in that thread.  It's been working for my wife since early Oct without fail as well.

I've experienced the same problem with the TID. Tried many things, but everything gets forgotten after a few minutes/hours or at the maximum a day.

Today I tried to insert the same finger (my thumb) three times, but every time a different zone.

-> first scan: middle part of my finger (just underneath the top part of the finger)

-> second scan: upper part of my finger (the top below the nail)

-> third scan: lower part of my finger (underneath the middle part of my finger)

This covers the whole area of the finger in three scans with overlapping zones (note that the upper and lower part have no overlapping scan area).

When I perform a few test scans in the system preferences, one of the three inserted finger scans will get highlighted every time I put my finger on the sensor. So all three are recogniced.

Now the strange thing is, after testing and unlocking a few times, when I scan the lower side of my finger, the upper scan gets highlighted, mind that this part of my finger has nothing to do with the upper scanned finger.

However, unlocking my iPhone with TID seems to work fine so far.

Here's an update of my experiences with the TID.

In Dec I installed my thumb as Joes instructions, it worked fairly well for about 3 weeks.

Just before Christmas I tried out the method of applying right and left thumbs on the same application, the left thumb seemed to work fairly well but very limited with the right.

Just after Christmas I added a finger, which worked well ( I didn't delete the double thumb installation). Last Monday using the finger installed became hopeless so I deleted it. I then just tried the double thumb installation that I hadn't deleted, unbelievably it works with my left thumb better than any fingers installed since I bought the phone.

It's worked just about 1st time every time all week, sometimes I just press my thumb on the sensor button to wake the phone up and it works straight away without removing thumb.

This just seems crazy to me from working fairly well after installing my finger and deleting after just over a week (my finger installation) to working as I imagine it should. Hope it continues.

Sorry for the long ramble.

I have this problem too and I have re-set my fingerprint endless times.  I tried wiping the button after deleting my former fingerprint but it still doesn't work.  Why pay for the Touch ID upgrade if it doesn't work??? Very disappointed - and this is my first iphone.

Joe_Fo, sorry, for some reason I thought it was you.

In any case, I found your advice helpful and definitely recommend it. Used alone, it preserves my registration for about 6 hours of active use, max -- roughly doubling the effectiveness of Apple's recommended technique.

However, in repeated experiments, I've discovered that combining your advice with this admittedly strange "mirror registration"  technique has allowed me to keep my Touch ID working for 12-24 hours.

NOTE: I mirror register my thumbs, then ONLY use one of the fingers I've registered afterward. I'm guessing the technique works by reducing the initial data load in the processor cache -- similar to your recommendation NOT to go through stage 2 of finger registration, and to register one finger only. By my reasoning, this technique fools the phone into registering only HALF a finger. :-). Thus, I've got more time before the processor "learns" too much and nukes everything in the cache.

I'm also thinking this bug may actually be a security measure gone awry. The phone wants to prevent hackers from simulating your thumbprint -- so if a print looks close, but not close enough, it shuts down the entire process. You might call it an autoimmune disorder.

NOTE: I'm not promoting my own procesure as a "cure," but if you're willing to re-register your prints every morning, it may give you a day's use of Touch ID/  The desperate may want to give it a whirl. ;-)

Message was edited by: Arthur_P_Johnson

Joe_Fo, just to elaborate my current technique.

First, learn Joe_Fo's technique of enrolling a finger in overlapping sections, as if it were a tic-tac-to grid. Lower center, lower left, lower right. Center center, center left, center right. Upper center, upper left, upper right. Each time, making sure there's some overlap with the preceding impression. Skip stage 2 entirely and enroll no additional fingers.

Next, try enrolling OPPOSING fingers (e.g., right and left thumbs) as if they were one finger -- otherwise following Joe's guidelines to the letter. Lower center, finger #1. Lower center, finger #2. And so forth, until your phone says you're ready for stage two. I have found that my phone will allow 8-9 impressions per finger! Skip stage two entirely and enroll no additional fingers.

This technique has allowed me to go 12-24 hours between registration renewals -- before I must repeat this odd little ceremony, like Sisyphus rolling his rock up the hill in Hades.

Carolcorte, I maintain some hope that Apple engineers may eventually eliminate this bug. This thread is one of several, and has now garnered 61,694 views.