HuntsMan75
Level 1 (14 points)

Q: Hard Drive

I have a 2007 MacBook Pro. I never had prooblems with it until recently. While running i'd get delays and Spinning beach balls. Never having had to deal with this or for that matter Apple support, I just took it in to Apple. For a price they diagnosed it as a bad drive.

 

Repairing it through them will cost almost as much as some of these units are selling for used. I want to do this myself. I'd also like to be able to test this thing in the future myself so I don't get stuck with this problem.

 

I'm looking for advice on a) drives for this system, b)repair instructions or online guides, c) test/evaluation software.

 

Thanks.

Posted on Oct 5, 2013 12:16 PM

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Q: Hard Drive

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  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Apr 7, 2014 12:24 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas
    Level 9 (51,412 points)
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    Apr 7, 2014 12:24 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas

    PlotinusVeritas wrote:

     

    Nobody can boot from a Time Machine volume.

    With OS X v10.7.3 and later, Time Machine backs up the Recovery System on your Mac to your backup drive as well. This lets you use your Time Machine drive to start up your Mac if needed. Simply connect your Time Machine drive, then hold down the option key at startup to select it as your startup disk.

    I really don't care about your opinion, but you really need to get up to date.

     

    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1427

  • by PlotinusVeritas,

    PlotinusVeritas PlotinusVeritas Apr 7, 2014 12:32 PM in response to Csound1
    Level 6 (14,811 points)
    Apr 7, 2014 12:32 PM in response to Csound1

     

    Csound1 wrote:

     

     

    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1427

     

    From the link above you reference:

     

    Restoring your entire system from a backup

    If you are restoring a backup made by a Mac to the same Mac

    Hold down the Command and R keys at startup to start the computer from the Recovery system. The Recovery menu that appears includes the option to restore from a Time Machine backup. If you are using Mac OS X Snow Leopard, start your computer from the installation disc. Then use the "Restore From Time Machine Backup" utility.

     

     

     

    One can restore from a TM backup.

     

    As such however, nobody can boot from a Time Machine volume.

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Apr 7, 2014 12:34 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas
    Level 9 (51,412 points)
    Desktops
    Apr 7, 2014 12:34 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas

    PlotinusVeritas wrote:

     

     

    Csound1 wrote:

     

     

    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1427

     

    From the link above you reference:

    This is from the same link

    With OS X v10.7.3 and later, Time Machine backs up the Recovery System on your Mac to your backup drive as well. This lets you use your Time Machine drive to start up your Mac if needed. Simply connect your Time Machine drive, then hold down the option key at startup to select it as your startup disk.

    I believe Apple rather than you, and as I can boot from a TM drive (into Recovery with a blank drive in the Mac) they seem to be correct and you don't

  • by OGELTHORPE,

    OGELTHORPE OGELTHORPE Apr 7, 2014 12:37 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas
    Level 9 (52,776 points)
    Mac OS X
    Apr 7, 2014 12:37 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas

    This I believe is the operative paragraph:

     

    Screen Shot 2014-04-07 at 3.32.20 PM.png

    Please refer to the very last sentence.

     

    Ciao.

  • by PlotinusVeritas,

    PlotinusVeritas PlotinusVeritas Apr 7, 2014 12:53 PM in response to Csound1
    Level 6 (14,811 points)
    Apr 7, 2014 12:53 PM in response to Csound1

     

    Csound1 wrote:

     

    This is from the same link

    With OS X v10.7.3 and later, Time Machine backs up the Recovery System on your Mac to your backup drive as well. This lets you use your Time Machine drive to start up your Mac if needed. Simply connect your Time Machine drive, then hold down the option key at startup to select it as your startup disk.

     

    The important information from that link is prior to the information you have posted (marked in blue)

     

    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1427

    OS X Lion and later let you:

    • Encrypt your Time Machine backup.
    • Start from OS X Recovery using your Time Machine backup disk. With OS X v10.7.3 and later, Time Machine backs up the Recovery System on your Mac to your backup drive as well. This lets you use your Time Machine drive to start up your Mac if needed. Simply connect your Time Machine drive, then hold down the option key at startup to select it as your startup disk.

     

    From this: OS X Recovery   http://support.apple.com/kb/ht4718

      OS X Lion, Mountain Lion, and Mavericks include OS X Recovery. This feature includes all of the tools you need to reinstall OS X, repair your disk, and even restore from a Time Machine backup without the need for optical discs.

     

    You can use OS X Recovery Disk Assistant to create a bootable USB flash drive that includes a Recovery system.

     

    Time machine can be brought into recovery mode for system restore,           but one cannot boot from TM.

    Kappy and Pondini (and others) are the experts on Time Machine, both state that you "cannot boot from Time Machine"

     

     

     

     

     

    OGELTHORPE Emerald City, Oz

    refer to last sentence.

     

    Correct, to get into recovery mode.  

     

    "This feature includes all of the tools you need to reinstall OS X, repair your disk, and even restore from a Time Machine backup without the need for optical discs"

    http://support.apple.com/kb/ht4718

     

     

    http://pondini.org/TM/Clones.html

     

    Time Machine Disadvantages

      •It’s not bootable.

    If your internal HD fails, you can't boot directly from your Time Machine backups.  You must restore them, either to your repaired/replaced internal HD or an external disk.   This is a fairly simple, but of course lengthy, procedure.  You can also transfer the apps, user accounts, and data to another disk or Mac, via Setup Assistant or Migration Assistant.  See How do I set up a new Mac from an old one, its backups, or a PC? for details.

     

    Kappy Tampa, FL and Vancouver, BC 

    Re: Boot from Time Machine?    Jul 25, 2013 7:54 PM    

       No. Time Machine does not make a bootable backup.

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Apr 7, 2014 1:06 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas
    Level 9 (51,412 points)
    Desktops
    Apr 7, 2014 1:06 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas

    <edited by host>

     

    To be clear

     

    You seem to be saying that it is not possible to boot from a TM drive unless the internal drive is bootable or has a Recovery partition that can be used.

     

    Is that your position?

  • by PlotinusVeritas,

    PlotinusVeritas PlotinusVeritas Apr 7, 2014 1:26 PM in response to Csound1
    Level 6 (14,811 points)
    Apr 7, 2014 1:26 PM in response to Csound1

    This is the position and statements of Pondini, Linc, Kappy, DStore and other Time Machine experts.

     

     

    I shall quote Kappy:


     

    Kappy Tampa, FL and Vancouver, BC 

    Your computer will startup using the Recovery HD image stored on the Time Machine backup drive exactly as it would if you used the COMMAND-R shortcut to boot from the Recovery HD partition on your hard drive. Time Machine does make an invisible backup of the Recovery HD partition

    No. Time Machine does not make a bootable backup. That can be done using Disk Utility to a separate drive not used by Time Machine.

     

     

    end quote from Kappy

     

     

     

    we are both on the 'same page' in clarification for the help of / for users and posters here,  of any and all nuances. 

     

     

    Maybe the fault in communication is in any party confusing "launching (boot) recovery mode"  with  "bootable clone"

  • by Kappy,

    Kappy Kappy Apr 7, 2014 1:43 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas
    Level 10 (271,794 points)
    Desktops
    Apr 7, 2014 1:43 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas

    All of you are speaking at cross purposes. None of you are wrong, but it is a matter of symantics.

     

    A Time Machine backup made with 10.8.3 or later makes an invisible copy of the Recovery HD (if there is one on the startup volume) from the internal startup volume. This can only be used to boot the computer into the recovery utilities. The volume is no different than if you booted from an installer discs.

     

    A "Bootable Clone" on the other hand usually refers to an exact replicat of the startup volume. Hence, you can boot from it as well as operated the computer normally.

     

    Both disks are bootable. Both disks are clones, but not clones of the same thing. And, each one is quite different than the other.

     

    So, instead of looking for opportunities to shout obsenities at one another because of your inexplicable dislike for each other, why not leave it alone. You are all right, just right about different things.

     

    I think it's time all of you grow up. This mutual animosity is absurd. Oglethorp and Csound: I find it remarkable that the mods haven't banned you two for the remarks you make to PV. They are without basis.

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Apr 7, 2014 1:57 PM in response to Kappy
    Level 9 (51,412 points)
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    Apr 7, 2014 1:57 PM in response to Kappy

     

    Kappy wrote:

     


    I think it's time all of you grow up. This mutual animosity is absurd. Oglethorp and Csound: I find it remarkable that the mods haven't banned you two for the remarks you make to PV. They are without basis.

     

     

    PV states that you can not boot from a TM drive, that is incorrect and misleading to posters. That is the basis.

     

    A Time Machine backup made with 10.8.3 or later makes an invisible copy of the Recovery HD (if there is one on the startup volume) from the internal startup volume.

    Which is what I said, except that it is 10.7.3, not 10.8.3.

     

    I find it remarkable that the mods haven't banned you two for the remarks you make to PV. They are without basis.

    Your opinion on this matters not, the mods will decide, you can report my posts should you find them objectionable.

  • by OGELTHORPE,

    OGELTHORPE OGELTHORPE Apr 7, 2014 2:01 PM in response to Kappy
    Level 9 (52,776 points)
    Mac OS X
    Apr 7, 2014 2:01 PM in response to Kappy

    Kappy wrote:

     

    I think it's time all of you grow up. This mutual animosity is absurd. Oglethorp and Csound: I find it remarkable that the mods haven't banned you two for the remarks you make to PV. They are without basis.

    The last post I made on in this discussion was informative, not rude. Should you believe otherwise, then we have gross differences in interpreting what was written. 

     

    I would ask you to find in this discussion or any other where my remarks can be construed as displaying any animosity towards PlotinusVeritas.

     

    Ciao.

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Apr 7, 2014 2:03 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas
    Level 9 (51,412 points)
    Desktops
    Apr 7, 2014 2:03 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas

    PlotinusVeritas wrote:

     

    This is the position and statements of Pondini, Linc, Kappy, DStore and other Time Machine experts.

    So what

  • by Kappy,

    Kappy Kappy Apr 7, 2014 3:41 PM in response to Csound1
    Level 10 (271,794 points)
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    Apr 7, 2014 3:41 PM in response to Csound1

    It was indeed 10.7.2 as follows:

     

    Recovery HD on a Time Machine backup disk

     

    If all of the following four conditions are met:

     

              • The Recovery HD partition is present on the drive containing your startup disk.

              • You are running Mac OS X 10.7.2 or later.

              • Your Time Machine backup disk is on an external hard drive, such as a FireWire or USB drive.

              • You have made a Time Machine backup since installing Mac OS X 10.7.2 or later.

     

    Then a copy of the Recovery HD partition is saved in a hidden disk image on your Time Machine backup disk.

     

    The above is an excerpt from the Lion Troubleshooting Edition, page 331. Authored by Dr. Smoke of the XLabs.

  • by PlotinusVeritas,

    PlotinusVeritas PlotinusVeritas Apr 7, 2014 4:15 PM in response to Kappy
    Level 6 (14,811 points)
    Apr 7, 2014 4:15 PM in response to Kappy

     

    Kappy wrote:

    Time Machine backup   ...   can only be used to boot the computer into the recovery utilities.

     

    I agree with your assessment that its mostly semantics. 

    Qualitatively the two (boot to recovery VS. bootable clone) are very different,  as is your assessment stated above.

     

    As per Pondini, DStore (and yourself) indicate, since Time Machine is not bootable  ...

     

    .... we then would agree this (ref. 'bootable') is as relates to a "bootable clone / copy",  .. which Time Machine is not.

    ...or then also agree to state that 'bootable to recovery (utilities)' also applies in denotation as well.


     

    http://pondini.org/TM/Clones.html

    Time Machine Disadvantages

    •It’s not bootable.

    If your internal HD fails, you can't boot directly from your Time Machine backups.

     

     

    by ds store

    https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-3045

    TimeMachine is a backup only, it's not bootable to confirm reliability to restore,

     

     

    eww 

       Jun 27, 2012 9:25 AM

       No, you can't boot from a Time Machine backup.

     

     

    http://www.macworld.com/article/1155441/timemachineallyouneed.html

    No bootable duplicates If your disk is damaged so severely that you must start over from scratch, Time Machine can restore every file from your backup (to the same disk or another one), but this process can take many hours, or even days in some cases, during which time you can’t use your Mac. You can’t boot directly from your Time Machine backup disk

     

     

     

    The point of contention, as per the semantics is the phrase "bootable clone", which Time Machine is not. 

     

    Semantically nuanced, ...   but with a large qualitative differences.

     

     

    thank you for your clarifications.

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Apr 7, 2014 5:41 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas
    Level 9 (51,412 points)
    Desktops
    Apr 7, 2014 5:41 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas

    PlotinusVeritas wrote:

     

     

    Kappy wrote:

    Time Machine backup   ...   can only be used to boot the computer into the recovery utilities.

     

    I agree with your assessment that its mostly semantics. 

    Qualitatively the two (boot to recovery VS. bootable clone) are very different,  as is your assessment stated above.

    Can you boot from a TM drive, simple question,

  • by MrJavaDeveloper,

    MrJavaDeveloper MrJavaDeveloper Apr 9, 2014 11:28 AM in response to Csound1
    Level 1 (64 points)
    Apr 9, 2014 11:28 AM in response to Csound1

    If you have an online backup provider and they allocate a speciifc amount of space, they may start FIFOing out the older stuff - especially if your plan is old. You have to be very careful about how these guys word what they offer. For example when I looked into detail at SOS and Carbonite online backup, they both did indeed do FIFOs....but that was also a few years ago. If I recall correctly, as marketers do, they highlight their unlimited plans and downplay to some extent those that cost less and aren't unlimited....that was the feeling I got from them. I seem to remember something od about their use of the word "unlimited" as in, it didn't really mean it.

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