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Helpful answers
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Apr 9, 2014 12:05 PM in response to MrJavaDeveloperby Csound1,MrJavaDeveloper wrote:
If you have an online backup provider and they allocate a speciifc amount of space, they may start FIFOing out the older stuff - especially if your plan is old.
I tested, Sugarsync, Copy.com, Dropbox, Box and Onedrive, none of them FIFO, when your space is full it is full and no more can be iuploaded.
Can you tell me which providers are doing this now (forget Carbonite it's not a useable solution with a Mac)
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Apr 11, 2014 10:33 AM in response to Csound1by MrJavaDeveloper,From the SOS online backup page:
http://www.sosonlinebackup.com/features/
"Not all “unlimited” backup providers actually give unlimited storage – for instance, many major service providers will remove files from their cloud 30 days after they are deleted from your computer. What happens if you need to restore a file you accidentally deleted 6 months ago? With SOS you can backup forever without any worry of data being gone later. (Of course, you can always manually delete stuff from the cloud if you don’t want it there any more.)"
I am not an expert in online backup storage and I'm not interested in arguing the pros/cons of one provider over another, or how one provider implements their storage and another doesn't. The above sounds like a same or similar type of FIFO'ing of data that Time Machine uses. In spite of that comment, I believe SOS actually does the same thing.
Carbonite says they support Macs on their web page:
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Apr 11, 2014 10:36 AM in response to MrJavaDeveloperby Csound1,MrJavaDeveloper wrote:
From the SOS online backup page:
http://www.sosonlinebackup.com/features/
"Not all “unlimited” backup providers actually give unlimited storage – for instance, many major service providers will remove files from their cloud 30 days after they are deleted from your computer. What happens if you need to restore a file you accidentally deleted 6 months ago? With SOS you can backup forever without any worry of data being gone later. (Of course, you can always manually delete stuff from the cloud if you don’t want it there any more.)"
That's marketing spiel, it would slightly more believeable if they identified the unlimited providers who delete your backups after 30 days.
I don't believe that is true.
I am not an expert in online backup storage and I'm not interested in arguing the pros/cons of one provider over another, or how one implements their storage and another doesn't. The above sounds like a same or similar type of FIFO'ing of data that Time Machine uses.
Time machine does not FiFo, at all.
Carbonite says they support Macs on their web page:
More marketing spiel. My (and others) experience of Carbonite is quite different.
But as it's your data, and your money you should do whatever you want with it.
Good luck.
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Apr 11, 2014 11:22 AM in response to Csound1by PlotinusVeritas,Csound1 wrote:
The above sounds like a same or similar type of FIFO'ing of data that Time Machine uses.
Time machine does not FiFo, at all.
Thats not exactly the case. TM can and does delete data without asking the user
From the expert on Time Machine, Pondini:
http://pondini.org/TM/Clones.html
When your backup disk gets near full, Time Machine will delete your oldest backup(s) to make room for new ones. But it will never delete its copy of anything that's still on your internal HD
Time Machine doesn't keep its copies of changed/deleted items forever, and you're usually not notified when it deletes them.
End from Pondini
On an internal HD, if you remove an important file there, ....if Time Machine is full, it will ALSO remove that important file from Time Machine.
https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-3045
by ds store
Assuming TimeMachine doesn't delete data, it does.
TimeMachine is NOT a permanent storage drive, eventually or by large changes the TimeMachine saved states can change and thus your older saved states with files will be gone.
see: Time Machine not a true backup?
Assuming TimeMachine will always restore any/all data, it doesn't.
I don't advise making a TimeMachine drive if your experiencing problems with your machine, quickly copy just the Users file folders off the machine to a storage drive as soon as possible as your boot drive may be dying and the TM will take too long to setup or copy corrupted data.
If TM is your only backup, don't be too quick to erase the internal boot drive (and thus your only other copy of data) if OS X is refusing to boot.
End from ds store
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Apr 11, 2014 11:24 AM in response to PlotinusVeritasby Csound1,PlotinusVeritas wrote:
Csound1 wrote:
The above sounds like a same or similar type of FIFO'ing of data that Time Machine uses.
Time machine does not FiFo, at all.
Thats not exactly the case. TM can and does delete data without asking the user
Not on a First in First out basis.
(you do know what FiFo means?)
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by Grant Bennet-Alder,Apr 11, 2014 11:25 AM in response to PlotinusVeritas
Grant Bennet-Alder
Apr 11, 2014 11:25 AM
in response to PlotinusVeritas
Level 9 (61,368 points)
DesktopsRe: Time machine
"But it will never delete its copy of anything that's still on your internal HD"
So you may lose older copies of things. You may not be able to go back to older versions of things.
>> But if your hard drive dies, Time Machine DOES have the ability to restore to the state shortly before the failure.
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Apr 11, 2014 12:22 PM in response to Csound1by PlotinusVeritas,Grant Bennet-Alder West of Boston, USA
Re: Time machine
"But it will never delete its copy of anything that's still on your internal HD"
So you may lose older copies of things. You may not be able to go back to older versions of things.
But if your hard drive dies, Time Machine DOES have the ability to restore to the state shortly before the failure.
That was from Pondini above.
Yes, however since TM is not a bootable volume, unless you have another HD handy to replaced the defective internal drive...., TM is dead in the water
Then its down time to go buy another drive, install it , then launch TM Recovery mode and restore it all (or what is present on TM).
If the internal HD is corrupt, defective, outright dead, nothing can be restored to it, from it, with it, etc.
http://pondini.org/TM/Clones.html
If your internal HD fails, you can't boot directly from your Time Machine backups - Pondini
Grant Bennet-Alder West of Boston, USA
wrote:
Re: Time machine
1. So you may lose older copies of things.
2. You may not be able to go back to older versions of things.
Neither one of those is a desirable position to be in.
HD clones and non-TM data backups and archives are foregone necessity.
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Apr 11, 2014 12:35 PM in response to PlotinusVeritasby Csound1,PlotinusVeritas wrote:
Grant Bennet-Alder West of Boston, USA
Re: Time machine
"But it will never delete its copy of anything that's still on your internal HD"
So you may lose older copies of things. You may not be able to go back to older versions of things.
But if your hard drive dies, Time Machine DOES have the ability to restore to the state shortly before the failure.
That was from Pondini above.
Yes, however since TM is not a bootable volume, unless you have another HD handy to replaced the defective internal drive...., TM is dead in the water
If you don't have a functional internal hard drive no backup system can restore your Mac until you do, nothing to do with TM.
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Apr 11, 2014 12:39 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alderby MrJavaDeveloper,Grant Bennet-Alder wrote:
Re: Time machine
"But it will never delete its copy of anything that's still on your internal HD"
So you may lose older copies of things. You may not be able to go back to older versions of things.
Yes, and this was exactly my concern. I could see someone doing a Time Machine backup, then deliberately deleting a file or directory that was taking up a lot of space and then thinking "it's safe now...it's on TM, so I don't need to keep in on my main drive" when in fact TM itself will start queuing it for removal, and then finally removing it once it starts getting tight on space.
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Apr 11, 2014 12:40 PM in response to MrJavaDeveloperby Csound1,Then it would be up to you to ensure that there is enough space for your backup, don't you think?
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Apr 11, 2014 12:46 PM in response to Csound1by MrJavaDeveloper,Obviously. But how many people are oblivious to this and how much free space is on a backup drive?
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Apr 11, 2014 1:04 PM in response to MrJavaDeveloperby PlotinusVeritas,MrJavaDeveloper wrote:
Yes, and this was exactly my concern. I could see someone doing a Time Machine backup, then deliberately deleting a file or directory that was taking up a lot of space and then thinking "it's safe now...it's on TM
The answer to how many people do that is "a lot"
This is why non-TM data archives and other backup methods are a necessity.
MrJavaDeveloper wrote:
Obviously. But how many people are oblivious to this and how much free space is on a backup drive?
Without irony,......again.....the answer to how many, is "a lot"
Csound wrote:
If you don't have a functional internal hard drive no backup system can restore your Mac until you do, nothing to do with TM.
That goes without saying, however this was in response to:
Grant Bennet-Alder West of Boston, USA
But if your hard drive dies, Time Machine DOES have the ability to restore to the state shortly before the failure.
This leaves out the critical point of down-time to buy another HD, which most people dont have spare HD laying around.
Swapping out a HD clone for a dead HD takes a mere 15 mins.
If you have a dead internal HD and a TM external backup, everything grinds to a total and complete halt until another HD is purchased and installed.
......and then the slow process of TM data restore.
As such, 15 mins vs. (up to) '15 hours'
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Apr 11, 2014 12:56 PM in response to MrJavaDeveloperby Csound1,MrJavaDeveloper wrote:
Obviously. But how many people are oblivious to this
Anyone who realises that once the drive is full you can't put any more on it should know, it's not complicated.
MrJavaDeveloper wrote:
Obviously. But how many people are oblivious to this and how much free space is on a backup drive?
The suggested ratio is 3 times the size of the internal drive, larger drives can go back farther in time than smaller ones.
My own ratio is 4 to 6 times the size of the internal drive, and I do not rely exclusively on Time Machine.
If you want to keep everything for years then you need an archival system, which Time Machine is not, (and does not pretend to be)
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Apr 11, 2014 12:58 PM in response to PlotinusVeritasby Csound1,PlotinusVeritas wrote:
Csound wrote:
If you don't have a functional internal hard drive no backup system can restore your Mac until you do, nothing to do with TM.
That goes without saying
So why say it?
Plotinus Veritas wrote:
Yes, however since TM is not a bootable volume, unless you have another HD handy to replaced the defective internal drive...., TM is dead in the water
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Apr 12, 2014 12:59 AM in response to PlotinusVeritasby ZV137,1. $40 per 100disk Taiyo Yuden DVD+R (buy on ebay in bulk to save $$)
To PlotinusVeritas:
I have some more questions about optical media. The OD media you mentioned above...is that available in DVD+R only or does the company make other types of media? I know this might sound kind of stupid, considering the storage, but what about CD-R/W disks? I burned some music CD-R/W disks about 20 years ago, and they still play, and they've been played alot. Is CD-R/W by any chance more reliable, or did I for some reason just luck out and get some high quality media way back then.
Regarding online storage, instead of using some third party vendor that, for all I know may have reckless security or data safeguarding practices, I'd consider putting the critical files I want in a folder, zipping it, making an encrypted DMG out of it, and then just saving the file to remote servers that I have a degree of confidence in...as in ones that I control.
Opinions?