clipping sound on new iMac when Logix X is running

Same issue with clicks/pops here.

New iMac 27 with FD.

I tried the following audio interfaces and all exhibit the problem:

1. Apogee Duet FW
2. Apogee Duet USB
3. a second Apogee Duet USB
4. Focusrite Forte

Tried booting off an external FW drive and no clicks/pops.

Spoke to Apple Care and they agree that the drive is the cause and they recomended that my local Apple store replace the drive. I'm in the process of working with the store manager to either replace the drive or the iMac.

@ Art Of Sound

iMac 27" late 2013 intel i7 3,5 Ghz with 3TB Fusion Drive and GTX 780M

I have an RME Fireface UCX USB Audio Interface that worked fine with my previous Mac Pro.

richollander,

do you also experience the clicks/pops when using the internal audio interface? if not, then you and i have the same experience.. and with that experience i find it hard to fault apple, as it only happens with third party interfaces..

Kenny,

Yours is an odd issue because every one I know that has a 2013 iMac with an FD fitted, has this issue to varying degrees with the onboard Audio... Some noted it only happens now and again.. some noted it happens straight away and some noted it only happens after a period of time. However they all also report that with an Audio interface of any kind... they all have exactly the same issue.... and this happens pretty quickly and every time.

In regards to issue #3, The USB3 power issue affects different interfaces to different degrees.. and different USB3 ports in different Macs may have different amounts of power available on the buses... so it could be it depends on the combination of type of Mac and the type/brand of Audio interface.... and also the loads placed on the interface.. (For example.. More audio tracks/more load on the interface and therefore more need for power) and different interfaces work better/worse over USB3... and some interfaces are not affected at al.. (because of how they are designed) so there is no hard and fast answer as to what devices would be affected and when.

It could also be Haswell related again, from a power availability point of view. but that is not certain as the USB3 issue can and does affect other Macs without Haswell CPUs. It is possible that Haswell based Macs are more suseptible... but that would be a guess at this point in time.

Additional Note:

I have taken delivery this morning of a client's 2013 iMac with 3TB FD fitted that is identical, spec wise, to my own 2013 iMac with the one exception that my iMac does not have an FD fitted...(7200rpm HD instead)

This should provide me with a much clearer insight into any differences taking place beween a FD and non FD fitted 2013 iMac.

I will be running various comparison tests using identical software/OS X config and my own range of Audio Interfaces today and tomorrow...and i will report back as and when I have completed these tests.

thanks for your reply. it all makes sense, it's just that i haven't experienced it. i agree with you that it's likely that i have and not noticed, or i have it coming for me.

was there anythingi can do to provoke it? when i use my external interface it seems to break down faster as soon as i involve audio tracks in logic. it does break down finally even with midi only projects, but those containing audio are the worst (perhaps because of added load on the FD).

however, when using the built in interface, like i said, so far no pops or clicks. but on the other hand i can't get audio into the machine so i can't test by using my guitar for example. and playing back the projects that kills my external nterface still works.

but i will try more and push it a bit more and see if i can provoke the issue on my internal card.. if i can't, then the situation is a bit weird i have to say..

Kenny,

The more audio tracks you have.. and/or the more streaming samples from say, Kontakt, the more likely you will hear this issue over built in Audio.. Basically the more load placed on the drive...and the bus... the more likely you are to notice/experience it..

I suspect it does take more load to affect the built in audio than it does, an external device because of the multiple issues relating to Audio interfaces i believe... Thats one of the things Ill be testing today and tomorrow on both of the iMacs i have here now.

Maybe I am just dense, but I still don't understand what fixes, if any, I have to look forward to.

System: New Fall 2013 iMac with FD; Apogee FW Duet connected via Thunderbolt adapter.

Problem(s): Audio drop-out after a certain period of time listening to iTunes, followed soon after by "bitcrushed" distortion. Changing the sample rate in the Duet temporarily fixes the problem, but only temporarily.

Question: WIll I have to choose between using a FD and having defective audio, or disabling/getting rid of the FD and having working audio? Or is the problem fixable? If the latter, then who, if anyone, is going to fix it? Based upon my cponversation with Apple Care, it won't be Apple, unless Apogee initiates a dalogue.

Al,

Apple's Engineering team are currently working on the 2013 iMac with FD and Internal/External Audio issue.. and you should expect a software/firmware update when this has been completed.

For the time being as possible workarounds you can either...

1) Disable/split your FD drive.. and use your system as a separate SSD and Mech drive.. until the fix is released at which point you can enable/join your FD again

See these links for more info on how to disable/enable/split your FD

http://www.macworld.com/article/2015664/how-to-split-up-a-fusion-drive.html

and...

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/11/achieving-fusion-with-a-service-training-do c-ars-tears-open-apples-fusion-drive/

or...

2) Boot from an external HD which seems to work for several people... and continue to do so until again, a fix is released by Apple.

Note: If you have a USB2 Audio Interface, the fix from Apple and the two workarounds above, may not fully resolve your issue... (You will know when you try one of the two workarounds above. This should fix the internal audio issue but you may continue to have issues with your USB2 audio interface..) as there is a separate issue with USB2 devices connected via a USB3 port in which case you will also need to wait until your Audio Interface Devs release an update for their firmware/drivers too. This is not an Apple fixable issue..... but one the Interface devs have to resolve.

- kennylovrin

The issue does happen with the internal audio but to a lesser extent than when using outboard gear. Totally 100% perfect when booting off of my backup drive.

Rich,

Absolutely +1

That is the feedback I am getting too.. and I have found this to work myself upon initial testing with the FD equipped iMac I received this morning.

Booting from an external HD works as a temp workaround until the FD issue is resolved by Apple so long as you don't also have the USB2/3 issue .... in which case the internal audio will work fine but your USB2 device may still have issues under certain loads... in which case you will need to wait until your Interface has a firmware/driver update issued for it.

I just thought I'd provide an update on the hub solution for dropping out audio/unknown USB device with the Apogee Duet 2 interface. With the USB 2 hub I didn't get many problems in comparison to when the Duet was plugged in directly to my Mac but I did experience the occasional dropout. This annoyed me and I decided to walk down the the Apple store and buy a Belkin Thunderbolt hub.

So far this has 100% fixed my problem. All day yesterday, and this morning after leaving my computer on all night with a loop of audio playing, no dropout. I am happy to say the problem has been fixed.

I don't know about you, but my experience was that the USB 2 hub vastly improved things, but wasn't 100% effective. More like 90-95% effective. This Belkin Thunderbolt hub I just got works perfectly, but it will set you back $300. So if you're like me and you just don't mind spending the money, I say go out and get one. I was going to buy it anyways, so just thought I'd share.

Since I know this works, I'm going to try a new test with the USB 2.0 hub. I am wondering now if maybe the reason it was only 90-95% effective was because I had multiple things plugged into it (ilok, keyboard, etc). I'm going to test it out with only the Duet plugged in and see what happens.

brentonius,

Yes.. you are likely to have more success with the USB2 hub if it is only used for your Audio Interface I suspect... though there are other possible factors at play too...

The Thunderbolt probably works better because it can handle a greater amount of data over it's bus.... whereas the USB2 hub is still limited by the smaller amount data USB can handle.. and the more devices connected to the USB2 hub the more data it has to handle hence the occasional dropout etc....

I'd be interested in what you find....

..and of course, thanks.. for continuing to report in your findings on this.. Much appreciated!

- The Art of Sound

Do you have any sense of timing on when Apple will have this fixed? I ask because if it's a matter of a week or two I will wait otherwise I will move forward with replacing the drive or the machine.

Thanks,

Ric

Hi, all..

I have reported this issue to Apple and have done som chatting and telephone chatting with senior support, as many other of you.

We all know the story, so I just go straight to the question.

Have any of you been trying to disconnect any audio device and just played thorugh the internal speakers?

How does this sound, does the fault appears?

Reason for asking was that Appel support asked me to do so, and run a test to see if the issue still is there.

Ok, I cant do any test of recording in Logic this way, but still I have now tryed to play projects through Logic, and play some music through Spotify.

I have to say that everything now works.. quite fine. Still, this isen`t any good for me, but it is interessting to know your experience with this.

Anyone, have some of you done this kind of test?