Deadphish42
Level 1 (0 points)

Q: clipping sound on new iMac when Logix X is running

I just got the new iMac that was released two weeks ago yesterday.  All I did was set it up with Logic X, Main Stage, and Aperture all from the app store. nothing else was put on it.  I opened up logic just to check it out and see how much faster the performance would be.  I just wanted to give it a quick test and played some apple loops I immideatly noticed it was making a clipping sound randomly.  The meters were not peaking everything was in the green and if you turned down the gain the clipping just got quiteter.  I called apple support thinking it was a hardware issue.  They had me do some trouble shooting like playing the same loops through quicktime and the clipping persisted. they also had me play a youtube video to see if I could hear the clipping. It wasn't as noticible but it was there. Apple decided that it would be a good idea to reformat the computer tomorrow and start over.  Sounded fine to me seeing how I didn't have much installed yet.  I did a little more trouble shooting on my own after I got off the phone with apple. First I made a copy of three apple loops and put them on my desktop then restarted the computer. Then after a fresh restart and nothing running I opened one of the apple loops off the desktop with quicktime player and it sounded great no clipping. Same with You Tube. I then opened Logic Pro X. Did nothing with it but minimize it. I then went back to quick time player and tried to play the loop again. This time the clipping was back. Same with You Tube. 

My conclusion for some reason when logic is running the audio makes a random clipping sound no matter what audio program you play the audio through. (Clipping sound comes out of the internal speakers as well as headphones) 

All of my software is up to date.

 

I am running:

 

27" iMac

3.5GHz Intel Core i7

16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3

 

If anybody has experienced this same problem or has any recomendations they would be greatly appreciated.

I am going to reformat in the morning and try and start again.

I will post my results

 

Thank you,

 

Aaron

iMac (27-inch, Late 2013), OS X Mountain Lion (10.8.5)

Posted on Oct 8, 2013 11:22 PM

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Q: clipping sound on new iMac when Logix X is running

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  • by Deadphish42,

    Deadphish42 Deadphish42 Oct 26, 2013 6:43 PM in response to Johnpaulmusic
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 26, 2013 6:43 PM in response to Johnpaulmusic

    Hello Everybody,

     

    It sounds like alot of people are still having issues even after installing Mavericks.  I have only done a quick test with loops in garage band and didn't encounter any problems but I have alot more testing to do. I did plug in a Apogee Jam today just to test it out and it seemed to work ok for the 5 minutes I used it in garage band.  It sounds like the people that are having trouble are getting it after extended use and I havent tested that yet.  I haven't tried out my firewire AI yet either or Logic.

    I did talk to Apple today. It was a call back from a senior tech that is working on my case and had sent a report to engineering.  She had heard back from the engineers and they are now aware of the problem but do not have a fix yet but are working on it and expext a update to be released soon. That's what she told me anyway.

    So as far as sending your machine back for a replacement you might want to hang on a little while or get a refund and purchase again when a fix has been released. I think a replacement would only produce the same results unless you maybe loose the fusion drive.

    If you do keep your machine you might want to see if they can start your warrenty from the date the issue is resolved.

     

    Good Luck everybody and I will let you know how further tests go with me,

     

    DeadPhish

  • by The Art Of Sound,

    The Art Of Sound The Art Of Sound Oct 26, 2013 7:58 PM in response to Johnpaulmusic
    Level 6 (12,117 points)
    Oct 26, 2013 7:58 PM in response to Johnpaulmusic

    johnpaul,

     

    Just a little clarification in regards to the USB2/3 issue..

     

    Some USB2 devices were either

     

    A ) Badly/Cheaply designed in the first place causing the issue when used on a USB3 port (The ultra cheap Midi to USB adaptors found on ebay.. would be one example of this)

     

    B) Designed in such a way that the Devs cannot perform a firmware/Driver update to fix the issue... (Mackie and M-Audio are two examples)

     

    C) The original design did not follow the guidelines provided causing this issue when used with the updated USB2/3 library routines used by both Apple and Microsoft (as the same issue is present with Windows 8.0/8.1) Digidesign/Novation etc.. would be good examples of this situation

     

    As a quick example, Mackie have had to release updated revisions of some of their hardware and only these updated revisions are compatible with Mountain Lion/Mav... and Win8 or higher.. The original revisions will never work with those OS's... and anyone who bought the earlier revision is, as they say, SOL

     

    You can more about this Mackie issue here

     

    Obviously this issue doesn't just affect Mackie but several other Audio Devices.... and while some have been correctly fixed by means of a firmware/driver update.. and some never had the issue in the first place... others either cannot be or haven't been fixed yet... resulting in the current situation.

  • by Clandestyne,

    Clandestyne Clandestyne Oct 27, 2013 5:50 AM in response to Johnpaulmusic
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 27, 2013 5:50 AM in response to Johnpaulmusic

    Hi john

     

    Thanks very much for the work on this it makes sense re. USB 2/3 issues and the advice of the updated FireWire unit.

     

    I will be asking my supplier to accept a return and will purchase the Safire pro 14 and FireWire to thunderbolt

     

    Will let you know if it sorts the issues

     

    Ta

     

    Paul

  • by mats_j,

    mats_j mats_j Oct 27, 2013 6:12 AM in response to Clandestyne
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 27, 2013 6:12 AM in response to Clandestyne

    Not to get your hopes down or anything, but I've tried an interface through thunderbolt/firewire and that didn't help my problem.

  • by Clambake,

    Clambake Clambake Oct 27, 2013 9:53 AM in response to mats_j
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 27, 2013 9:53 AM in response to mats_j

    Mavericks solved the snap, crackle, pop issue on my 17 1TB fusion iMac. Now I have the AI problem. Fine for 20 minutes then begins to stutter and progressivley gets worse. Can be fixed by resetting the core audio by unplugging or any other method but will return in 20 minutes. This happens with Logic and all audio output.

     

    My AI is a Presonus AudioBox 22VSL. I have a ticket into Presonus. Sounds like all AIs have this problem with Mavericks and the USB3, don't know if the fusion drive has anything to do with it.

  • by Deadphish42,

    Deadphish42 Deadphish42 Oct 27, 2013 12:06 PM in response to Clambake
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 27, 2013 12:06 PM in response to Clambake

    Hello Everybody,

     

    Just a quick question? Is there anybody out there that has upgraded to Mavericks and the problem went away and is still gone after extensive testing and if so what equipment are you using if you don't mind taking the time to post the info. I am going to do some extensive testing today with a Presonus Inspire firewire using a firewire 800 to 400 cable pluged into a Thunderbolt to firewire adapter. I will also be testing a Apogee Jam USB 2. I will post all my results when I am finished. Can anybody suggest a standard test I could preform so I can check out everything that seems to be causing trouble for people.  This would also give us all a standard protacall for testing so that we can compare notes for different AI's and there results.

     

    Screen Shot 2013-10-27 at 11.55.53 AM.pngScreen Shot 2013-10-27 at 11.56.15 AM.png
    Thank you everybody. I'm going to do some basic testing but it would really help me if somebody could sugest a somewhat scientific way of testing were I could take each interface through a standard routine I think it could help us compare AI's.
    Thanks again,
    DeadPhish

  • by Pancenter,

    Pancenter Pancenter Oct 27, 2013 1:10 PM in response to Deadphish42
    Level 6 (10,029 points)
    Audio
    Oct 27, 2013 1:10 PM in response to Deadphish42

    I can think of a simple test you can try with both interfaces. BTW, I'm surprised the Inspire still works in Mavericks.

     

    Anyway, you play guitar I take it?

     

    Lay down a two or three minute bed of loops or loop you can play over.

    Save it as a project.

     

    Start recording 44.1kHz 24-bit guitar tracks over the top of it, record the full 2-3 minutes. Have a single Space-Designer on a bus for verb. Each guitar track should have Logic's compressor with identical settings. Use channel EQ at will.

     

    If you can get six tracks down and mixed without problems move on to the next stage.

     

    Next add a couple of virtual instruments to the project...an ES2 should be one and whatever else you want. Just make sure you use the same virtual instruments on both interface tests.

     

    This should take you well over 30 minutes and will give you an indication of system/Interface stability.

  • by Deadphish42,

    Deadphish42 Deadphish42 Oct 27, 2013 1:46 PM in response to Pancenter
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 27, 2013 1:46 PM in response to Pancenter

    Hey Pancenter,

     

    I'm surprised that PeSonus still works too. I've had it for a long time I got it a long time ago at guitar center for 99 bucks. I have it hooked up third in a thunderbolt chain too. I'm in the market for something nicer and I'm going to start another thread today asking for some suggestions on that.

     

    Thanks for the advice on a standardized test I will try it out on each device and report my results.

     

    Just to be clear is the problem people are encountering with there devices the same rice crispie effect or is it something else or similar?

     

    Thanks,

     

    DeadPhish

  • by Pancenter,

    Pancenter Pancenter Oct 27, 2013 3:47 PM in response to Deadphish42
    Level 6 (10,029 points)
    Audio
    Oct 27, 2013 3:47 PM in response to Deadphish42

    (I thought this time you were going to track #2 below which is the current complaint regarding Mavericks & LX.)

     

    So far I've tracked three different kind of audio noise being created in/with Logic-X, ML and Mavericks.

     

    1. The Rice Crispy Effect,  (Mountain Lion (possibly Mav) - your original post in this thread)

    2. Stuttering-popping,  (Mavericks - after using the system for a period of time it starts to stutter, pop)

    3. Noise cause by incompatible drivers (mostly the Focusrite interfaces using the ML drivers but others as well.)

     

    There is another noise that's very similar to the rice crispy effect which is caused by the digital audio input not being locked to the 44.1/48 kHz sample clock. I don't think that applies here.

     

    As far as USB2/USB3 problems... personally I've never trusted USB for audio, USB packet transfers are directly handled by the operating system, FireWire on the other hand has the hardware to offload the transfer process from the system, noticeably less CPU use. (hopefully Apple didn't mess with that)

     

    Also, I usually don't trust interfaces MIDI or Audio that are System compliant (no drivers) Upgrading the OS, even incrementally becomes a crapshoot, if Apple decides to upgrade their USB drivers there's no guarantee of the same performance.

     

    I'm still on Logic 9 and Snow Leopard, my computer runs flawlessly, I need it to run like this, there's nothing in the new operating systems I need so why bother.

  • by The Art Of Sound,

    The Art Of Sound The Art Of Sound Oct 27, 2013 4:14 PM in response to Pancenter
    Level 6 (12,117 points)
    Oct 27, 2013 4:14 PM in response to Pancenter

    As far as USB2/USB3 problems... personally I've never trusted USB for audio, USB packet transfers are directly handled by the operating system, FireWire on the other hand has the hardware to offload the transfer process from the system, noticeably less CPU use. (hopefully Apple didn't mess with that)

     

    No.. They seem to have left it well alone.. as all FW stuff here is working per normal on 10.9.... and with no extra demands made on the CPU compared to any past OS X version...

     

    Amazing huh?

     

     

     

    As for your comments on the use of USB and not trusting System Compliant devices... You get a big +1 from  me... The only class compliant stuff I somewhat trust are those that have the ability to accept firmware updates to fix any possible issues in the future and even then, Im still wary...

     

    As for your comment about Snow Leo and Pro 9... (and as we have discuessed in the past) I still have 10.6.8 and 9.1.5 running on one of my rigs and to this day it is still the most stable of all my different systems...and the most efficient in terms of CPU usage imho... Most of the OS X updates do nothing positive for Audio anyhow...  Having said that I like the new LPX look and feel.. and some of it's new facilities..  which is why I updated another of my rigs to ML.. but if it wasn't for my clients all scrambling to have the 'latest and greatest" for whatever crazy reason/excuse they come up with.....  (One computer and they 'need' iCloud.. is the most common one I hear) I wouldn't even look at Mavericks for at least a year...

  • by brentonius,

    brentonius brentonius Oct 27, 2013 4:41 PM in response to The Art Of Sound
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 27, 2013 4:41 PM in response to The Art Of Sound

    So I was considering buying a new iMac but am I ever glad I read this first! Yikes! What a horrible situation, especially if your business is audio related.

     

    So I have some questions.

     

    1) Are the problems directly related to fusion drives?

    2) Are there reports of 7200rpm drive computers not having such problems?

    3) Are Apogee Duet interfaces running smoothly or are there problems

  • by Pancenter,

    Pancenter Pancenter Oct 27, 2013 4:49 PM in response to The Art Of Sound
    Level 6 (10,029 points)
    Audio
    Oct 27, 2013 4:49 PM in response to The Art Of Sound

    The Art Of Sound wrote:

     

     

    As for your comment about Snow Leo and Pro 9... (and as we have discussed in the past) I still have 10.6.8 and 9.1.5 running on one of my rigs and to this day it is still the most stable of all my different systems...and the most efficient in terms of CPU usage imho...

     

    Yes, same here, I was running 9.1.3 which was doing well but upgraded to 9.1.5 at your recommendation. One thing that seems to be better in this version, well, two things...... I'm getting much better CPU distribution over 4 cores and "Comp Takes" seem to be more solid.

  • by The Art Of Sound,

    The Art Of Sound The Art Of Sound Oct 27, 2013 4:58 PM in response to Pancenter
    Level 6 (12,117 points)
    Oct 27, 2013 4:58 PM in response to Pancenter

    Brentonius,

     

    1) Yes, it does seem its only the ones with Fusion Drives that seem to have the issues with Audio distortion "Rice Crispy" effect... etc..

     

    2) I have a 2013 iMac with Standard 7200rpm HDs and no issues here at all.. despite extensive testing/attempts to recreate the issue. Nor have I come across anyone with standard HDs in a 2013 iMac having these issues so read into that, what you will.

     

    3) I have three clients all using Duet 2s with the latest 10.9 compatible drivers under Mavericks and no problems reported. Apogee are also claiming full compatibility with all current Duet models as per here...

  • by The Art Of Sound,

    The Art Of Sound The Art Of Sound Oct 27, 2013 5:08 PM in response to Pancenter
    Level 6 (12,117 points)
    Oct 27, 2013 5:08 PM in response to Pancenter

    Pancenter,

     

    Yes.. 9.1.5 does seem to provide better load bearing across the cores... I notice that a great deal using 8 cores.. and a little more stability in some areas of LP compared to 9.1.3 which was my previous choice...

     

    For me, this particular setup has proven itself to me over time to be the best overall combination of Logic 9 and OS X that i can recall.. It is my 'go to' system for my own personal projects... though of course I still do use LPX etc.. simply to get used to them for providing support to my clients.. and SL simply isn't a realistic possibility on my newer Macs...  but when I just want to sit down and record without any hassles or workarounds needed.. and know I wont have to worry about any possible lockups or odd behaviors.. 10.6.8 and 9.1.5 is my DAW setup of choice.

     

    As a complete aside... I will going to see the new Mac Pro "in action" in a few weeks time i gather.. One of my clients will be getting one (he says he's getting one of the upper end versions...) and wants me to come over and help set up so that should be interesting to say the least! Way out of my price range to be honest given what i already have here.. but it still looks, from the specs at least, to be one heck of a beast...

  • by brentonius,

    brentonius brentonius Oct 27, 2013 6:34 PM in response to The Art Of Sound
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 27, 2013 6:34 PM in response to The Art Of Sound

    Well that's a relief. So the Duet is working with the new iMacs? I wish Apogee would confirm this... It seems all they can confirm, so far, is that it has no problems with Mavericks. Are your clients all on the new iMacs (late 2012 model)?

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