More PowerBook 145B trouble

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Level 1

8 points

More PowerBook 145B trouble

So I keep starting up this old Mac with the 'Disk Tools' disk, and although at one point the computer started up with all the info on the Hard Disk intact, now it can't find the Drive (which I think was SCSI port 0). Using the "HD SC Setup" I get an error message saying "Drive selection failed. Unable to read required information from the disk." USing the "Powerbook restore" fuction I get a message saying "The hard disk is not responding."

I think it's dead, although it was working recently. Any ideas? Thanks a lot.

PowerBook 145 B Other OS

Posted on Jul 2, 2006 12:33 PM

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Answer 1

Jan Hedlund

Level 7

24,235 points

Jul 2, 2006 1:45 PM in response to michaelbenji

Try again (with the Disk Tools disk in the floppy drive) to start the PowerBook. Immediately after the startup sound, press and hold the four keys Command (Apple) + Option + Shift + Delete (Backspace). Then launch Disk First Aid. Does the window show the hard disk? If so, verify/repair. After that, open Apple HD SC Setup. Is there any sign of the hard drive? If so, choose to update the driver (once again, do NOT initialise).

BTW, I do not know exactly which type of disk tools floppy you have, but "PowerBook Restore" indicates that you have an edition with a program used to restore information on the hard disk from a set of floppies created by a special backup application that came with certain models.

Right now, the most important thing is to make the hard disk icon appear on the Desktop (alternatively, in Disk First Aid or Apple HD SC Setup).

It is quite possible that the hard drive has a faulty controller board, or another hardware issue. It is also possible that there is a problem with a connector or something else inside the computer.

If you had access to another older Mac (with a built-in floppy drive), you could have downloaded other useful utilities (e.g. Mt. Everything), and made a modified tools floppy. I am not sure that all this is possible with the iBook USB drive (may also depend on the operating system).

Jan

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Answer 2

michaelbenji Author

Level 1

8 points

Jul 2, 2006 2:20 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

Thanks for your advice. So the problem is that I can't get the hard disk icon to appear on the Desktop, either in Disk First Aid or Apple HD SC Setup. It appeared once and everything seemed fine (for the first time the startup items loaded and I was prompted for a password), but then the computer froze and when I re-started, there was no hard disk presence acknowleged anywhere. I would guess it IS some sort of connection issue on a hardware level.

The other problem is that once I got the computer started with the hard drive up and desktop back to normal, I couldn't take out the 'Disk Tools' floppy because the computer was operating from it, or something to that effect (I forget the message). So even if I get the computer back to where I had it before, I don't know how I can copy my files onto a different floppy.

I do only want some of the data on the drive, and don't care about the computer. I emailed Tekserve in New York and they will charge me $150 plus tax to put the data on a disk--and that's if there's no other problem. It might just come to that, unless anyone has any other ideas about what to do or where to go for help.

PowerBook 145 B Other OS

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Answer 3

Jul 2, 2006 2:45 PM in response to michaelbenji

Michael,

For that price, give this adapter a try and test your drive on another Mac. That is what the professionals will do.

Ji˜m

Google - laptop hard drive bay adapter - for more options.

http://www.interloper.com/products/product-details.php?productid=53700005&cat=53 70&mfgn=&page=1&sec=1&od=

http://insidecomputer.stores.yahoo.net/lahadr2.html

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Answer 4

Jan Hedlund

Level 7

24,235 points

Jul 2, 2006 3:52 PM in response to michaelbenji

Hi again,

First of all, the reason for the Command + Option + Shift + Delete combination when starting from the floppy is to try to prevent any bad SCSI drivers from affecting the system.

Try to repeat everything, including the Power Manager and PRAM reset operations.

once I got the computer started with the hard drive up and desktop back to normal, I couldn't take out the 'Disk Tools' floppy

Yes, if you try to eject the startup floppy by dragging it to the Trash, you will receive a message telling you that a disk with the active system cannot be removed. However, you should be able to choose Eject Disk from the Special menu instead. This will leave a floppy "shadow" on the Desktop. Next, an empty Mac-formatted diskette can be inserted. This way it is, usually, possible to copy files to a floppy even if the machine is running from a floppy-based system, but one will have to swap disks (follow the instructions on screen) many, many times.

Jan

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Answer 5

Jan Hedlund

Level 7

24,235 points

Jul 2, 2006 4:06 PM in response to Appaloosa mac man

Jim,

Just one thing. The PowerBook 145B has a SCSI hard drive, so a SCSI (not IDE) external case (or just an adapter) for 2.5" drives will be needed (not easy to find).

Jan

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Answer 6

Jul 2, 2006 4:50 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

Thanx 4 the heads up, Jan. I was tired when I looked up the adapter and just assumed that I found the right one! I took a nap and I am better now! Jim

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Answer 7

michaelbenji Author

Level 1

8 points

Jul 2, 2006 6:53 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

Arg. Well, I reset the power manager and the PRAM again. Here's the saga of my trials:

1) When I try to use Disk First Aid, the computer gives me the option of the Drive but tells me first that "The disk (SCSI 0) is write protected" and that I won't be able to complete any repairs, and can only "verify" the disk. When I hit 'OK', Disk First Aid is "Unable to read from disk."

2) I restarted again and I'm still getting that message in the HD SC Setup, "Drive selection failed. Unable to read required information from the disk" after the computer is searching for SCSI drives. And "Disk Tools" only acknowledges the internal floppy drive.

3) OK on the most recent startup, the hard drive seems to have engaged--I started without the Disk Tools disk or hitting shift-command-option-delete and was prompted for my password. Then the screen went blank and there's the small vintage Mac icon in the middle, underneath a "0000000F" and a "000000GG" (or maybe a '66' at the end).

4) And on the last startup: now there's no acknowledgement of a disk present, and putting the "Disk Tools" in gets the computer started, but, again, no hard disk presence. Trying to "Restore" in disk tools yields a message that my hard disk is "not responding."

5) The computer started up fine, no problem, without the Disk Tools. I was transferring files to a floppy disk and got a Finder error message (type 41) and had to restart. Back to square one. I guess I'll keep trying.

This does seem to be a hardware connection problem, right? I'm not afraid to take this thing apart (I did it once before to replace a trackball spring). Is it worth it to take it apart and check a specific area of connection? I don't know my way around computer internals, but I can follow instructions, if someone can guide me to a site.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP.

PowerBook 145 B Other OS

PowerBook 145 B Other OS

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Answer 8

Jul 2, 2006 8:15 PM in response to michaelbenji

>"Unable to read from disk."

That drive has one foot in the grave and the other one on a banana peel. If it is correctly cabled, it is not long for this world.

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Answer 9

michaelbenji Author

Level 1

8 points

Jul 2, 2006 8:21 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

Hmmm...not a cheery prognosis. Is there a way to find out if it's 'correctly cabled'?

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Answer 10

Jul 2, 2006 8:29 PM in response to michaelbenji

The chances of being incorrectly cabled are very, very small. But some of the older powerbooks used flex cables that fit into clamp-style connectors, and if this used one of those, there is a slim possibility it could be misaligned.

Every drive I have ever seen with the "can't read from disk" message on was completely dead very soon thereafter. Get what you can off it while you still can.

Later you can take it apart, and if it was just a bad connection, "Merry Christmas"!

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Answer 11

Denis Eddy

Level 4

3,571 points

Jul 2, 2006 9:04 PM in response to michaelbenji

michaelbenji
The burden of your outcomes: being asked for a password; the software error implied by the line ending '0F' under Sad Mac; being told that the system is 'Unable to read required information from the disk ... cannot be accessed', all indicate that there is software password protection in place at the disk, not System, level.

Either you, or someone, may have installed this at some time in the past. Whether it was you, but you don't remember, or someone else, you are in dire straits. Professional data recovery is your only possible, but not certain, avenue of escape. Use of the HDD may very possibly be gained by formatting the drive, but all data will thereby be lost.

It seems to me that the only way of determining how final is your impasse is to get hold of the drive in SCSI Disk Mode from another Mac as host. This needs an HDI-30M/CN-50F switchable SCSI/DOCK adapter, a CN-50M/CN-50F passthrough terminator, a CN-50M/DB-25M System cable, and a Mac with a standard DB-25F port at the rear. SCSI Disk Mode is written into the ROM of the PB, and does not need that the PB should boot (ie, load a System). It needs only that its HDD spin up and be able to be read by the host Mac. The behaviour and outcome of this process should put the matter beyond doubt.

Apple IIe; 68K: 11DT + 4PB; PPC: 5DT + 3PB; G3: 6DT System 6.0.8 to OS 10.4.x

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Answer 12

michaelbenji Author

Level 1

8 points

Jul 2, 2006 10:14 PM in response to Denis Eddy

It seems to me that the only way of determining how
final is your impasse is to get hold of the drive in
SCSI Disk Mode from another Mac as host. This needs
an HDI-30M/CN-50F switchable SCSI/DOCK adapter, a
CN-50M/CN-50F passthrough terminator, a CN-50M/DB-25M
System cable, and a Mac with a standard DB-25F port
at the rear. SCSI Disk Mode is written into the ROM
of the PB, and does not need that the PB should boot
(ie, load a System). It needs only that its HDD spin
up and be able to be read by the host Mac. The
behaviour and outcome of this process should put the
matter beyond doubt.

Denis, Thanks. You, um, obviously know your stuff. The above info...I need a 'dummies' version, as I am now officially over my head. I assume you are telling me, in part, that I need an OLDER Mac to do this, and can't do it with my current ibook. I guess I could buy an old mac on ebay for $1.99, along with everything else you recommended above, but I'm starting to think that I should just bite the bullet and pay for a data recovery.

I did have a password on the computer at one point--I installed some sort of utility that gave me that option. The last time the computer booted correctly, I was prompted for a password. I don't know if that's useful information...

Thanks for your help.

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Answer 13

Jan Hedlund

Level 7

24,235 points

Jul 3, 2006 12:57 AM in response to michaelbenji

It is quite possible that the culprit is in hardware (most probably the hard drive itself), but some things here point at a problem with the hard disk drive driver software. If the hard disk has been reformatted with a third-party application, Apple HD SC Setup will, typically, not allow any driver update (the third-party product would have to be used). As has been indicated above, it may be possible to reformat (initialise) the hard disk (by yet another product), but you do NOT want to do this here, since that would erase the disk.

Unfortunately, the PowerBook 145B does not seem to support SCSI Disk Mode, an otherwise good method of gaining access to a PowerBook hard drive. Almost any other old and inexpensive Mac, equipped with a built-in floppy drive for both 800K/1.4 MB disks, would be very useful anyway. This way you would have the chance to make and modify a tools floppy. You could also create a Network Access floppy. Also, you could (via an appropriate case/adapter) more easily work on the removed hard drive, if necessary.

You may want to study the Recovering Data from a Defective Disk Drive part of this page. It may be worth testing if Mt. Everything (by its built-in driver) would be capable of " taking over" the hard drive.

If the information on the disk is of extreme importance to you, do not continue with any experiments. If so, contact a company specialised in data recovery. However, a really professional data recovery service, if needed, may carry a cost of substantially more than the USD 150 mentioned earlier.

Jan

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Answer 14

michaelbenji Author

Level 1

8 points

Jul 3, 2006 7:17 AM in response to Jan Hedlund

So I made a modified tools floppy. Mt. Everything loads up but all I'm getting is a "Copy/Compare aborted" message. I think I'm going to call it quits. Thanks for your help. I did get some of what I needed off the computer during the couple of times it was working, so all is not lost.

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Answer 15

Jan Hedlund

Level 7

24,235 points

Jul 3, 2006 7:22 AM in response to Jan Hedlund

Addendum

If you decide to carry on with your own data recovery attempts, an older Mac does not have to be advanced at all. Even something like the LC II should be quite sufficient. For other models, see the specifications here. It does not hurt if the hard disk is bigger than the one in the PowerBook (perhaps twice the size), but this is not a requirement. A full System 7.0.1 or 7.5.3 (depending on the computer) can be downloaded from Apple via your iBook (and its external USB floppy drive), if necessary, but make sure that you have at least a bootable floppy or CD (for the machine in question) from the beginning.

A plain Macintosh serial printer cable (MiniDIN-8M to MiniDIN-8M) is also good to have. This would make it possible to connect the PB 145B (starting from a Network Access floppy) to the other Mac, and try to launch utilities placed on that other machine's hard disk.

It is not difficult to create and modify tools disks. Whenever necessary, do not hesitate to post back for instructions (relatively detailed, if you so wish).

Jan

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